An Excellent Discussion Question for All Halo (or Non-Halo) Fans.

Hello, Guild! Recently I have finished reading Halo: Glasslands, and my brain formulated a couple great discussion questions for those of you who want a good moral debate. Now, Non-Halo fans can chime in and give their two-cents, for I will explain the contents of this question(mostly for them).

A. Was the Spartan-II Program moral?

B. Were the Spartan Program and Doctor Halsey justified after the UNSC's "victory"?


Now for those of you who do not know what the Spartan-II program is, read this:

Doctor Catherine Halsey, chief scientist at the Office of Naval Intelligence, began to research the genetics of hundreds of children, six-year olds, with the means to start a super-soldier program. Halsey selected 75 individuals who met her qualifications, near-perfect genetics, and set out to kidnap the six-year olds from their families. The kids were terrified out of their wits, but Halsey pushed forward with the program, replacing the children with short-lived flash clones. These clones clones died sooner than Halsey had anticipated, many dying slowly over many months. Disregarding her failure, Halsey moved on with the program, putting these children through rigorous training, the likes of which not seen by even the UNSC's most elite soldiers. The children were brainwashed into believing their lives had begun with her; she was the center of their world. At age fourteen, the children were ready for complete augmentation. Ceramic bone implants and augmentations to the children's' nervous systems took a heavy toll on many. Out of the 75, 30 died from the augmentation and 12 more washed out due to serious disabilities and injuries. Yet still Halsey continued the project, using the remaining 33 Spartans to eradicate Insurrectionist forces that were crippling the UNSC. Many Spartans never knew the truth of their pasts until it was too late. By the end of the war, those who learned knew that they were decades too late and that there families may have fallen to the Covenant.

There you have it. Not trying to persuade anyone's opinion with that, just stating what I know to help the discussion. I'll give my two-cents in a bit, I'm still waking up.

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Originally Posted by gearmaster154

A. Was the Spartan-II Program moral?

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No.

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Originally Posted by gearmaster154

B. Were the Spartan Program and Doctor Halsey justified after the UNSC's "victory"?

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Yes.

Why is it that you feel that the program was justified?


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I believe that the Spartan-II Program was far from moral. Kidnapping innocent children from their families, replacing them with short lived clones, and harshly training them seemed wrong in every meaning of the word. Was it a success? I suppose, though many children died from augmentation, never able to live the life they were promised by their "mother". Sure the Spartan-IIs won us the war against the Covenant, but that was by coincidence. Spartan-IIs were bred to quell the Insurrection. the Covenant appeared after the program had finished. Therefore, the UNSC's victory against the Covenant was pure coincidence, which is where one my argue that without the Spartan program, Humanity would have lost. And that is true. Humanity would have had no chance against the Covenant onslaught, but the means by which the Spartan program was carried out was unjustifiable. The Spartan-IV program proved just as effective, a corps of willing adults which outnumbered the original 33 Spartan-IIs. The UNSC's Project ORION should have been followed from the beginning. But instead of using willing adults for the next step, ONI stooped low enough to kidnap defenseless children and leave their families with defective clones. I firmly believe that neither the program, nor Halsey were justified by the end of the war, despite the Spartans' success. I also believe that the program was immoral and as low as the ONI could stoop.

...Who fucking cares

Moral or not, it was what had to be done

And again...who fucking cares about debating the morality of something that happened in a video game

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Originally Posted by Hunter of Shadows

...Who fucking cares

And again...who fucking cares about debating the morality of something that happened in a video game

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Because it's an interesting thing to talk about? Besides, if you didn't care, why did you even say anything?

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Originally Posted by Hunter of Shadows

...Who fucking cares

Moral or not, it was what had to be done

And again...who fucking cares about debating the morality of something that happened in a video game

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I personally believed the Spartan II program was moral given the circumstances and what was needed. I also feel like Halsey gave those children an amazing life, and did more for them then their families ever could. The government does this all the time, taking kids from homes and deciding they will be a better parent. These kids were given better lives with structure and were allowed to create careers in their lives. I think what the government did is no different from the Foster system california has now, except those kids got more benefits and a way to make their lives have purpose.

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Originally Posted by gearmaster154

Because it's an interesting thing to talk about? Besides, if you didn't care, why did you even say anything?

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Because there isn't anything we can discuss about this particular subject that hasn't been reflected upon or discussed by the very characters in the game

I just don't see the point to this, you want to discuss something the game media(the game itself, novels, and more) hasn't already gone over that's all

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Originally Posted by Hunter of Shadows

Because there isn't anything we can discuss about this particular subject that hasn't been reflected upon or discussed by the very characters in the game

I just don't see the point to this, you want to discuss something the game media(the game itself, novels, and more) hasn't already gone over that's all

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Yes we can, in fact just because the game brings up good points does not mean it's ruined any and all possible conversation. Instead of trying to shout down conversations why don't you just...







http://openclipart.org/people/aungkarns/getout.svg

I agree with Turtlicious. Sure, the game and game media have covered this topic before, but it was all opinion. I'm asking those who play the game, and have some interest in the story, what they think of the whole idea. It's what good fans of a game, movie, etc. do. We discuss and question parts of the media even if it has already been brought up within the lore.

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Originally Posted by Turtlicious

Yes we can, in fact just because the game brings up good points does not mean it's ruined any and all possible conversation. Instead of trying to shout down conversations why don't you just...

http://openclipart.org/people/aungkarns/getout.svg

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http://roleplayerguild.com/customava...ar21150_58.gif

Anyways gearmaster has convinced me, without being rude that there is a point to discussing it

I guess it depends on your view point, whether you see the world in blacks and whites or shades of gray, if the former then no, none of it was right or ethical, and hell even in shades of gray it's pretty hard to justify what you did on a moral basis, but on the basis that it was necessary? That without doing what they did, the human race would have been wiped out?

Completely justified, and I'm sure on that note, Doctor Halsey would simply state "I'd do it again."

Admittedly later on they were able to, as a result of the Spartan II program, refine the process to no longer be dangerous, and without kidnapping kids...I think, not sure about that part.(Halo Ghosts of Onyx)

They were able to then mass produce Spartans, something that was highly useful and no doubt again greatly helped the humans survive up until they could gain the technology needed to fight back effectively