I'm running a dark fantasy Zelda rp in the Advanced section and I'm hoping for more players. I've already got five regularly posting players, so the rp certainly has enough players to flourish-I'm just wanting more. If the idea of a rp set in the zelda universe where Hyrule has become an empirical superpower, magic is becoming increasingly common in place of gunpowder and electricity, with politics, mystery and/or adventure/dungeon-delving, look within. http://roleplayerguild.com/showthrea...te-Triforce-IC
There are many legends of which the people speak...
Before time began, before spirits and life existed...
Three golden goddesses descended upon the chaos that was Hyrule...
Din, the goddess of power... Nayru, the goddess of wisdom... Farore, the goddess of courage...
Din... With her strong flaming arms, she cultivated the land and created the red earth...
Nayru... Poured her wisdom onto the eath and gave the spirit of law to the world...
Farore... With her rich soul, produced all life forms who would uphold the law...
The three great goddesses, their labors completed, departed for the heavens,
And golden sacred triangles remained at the point where the goddesses left the world
Since then, the sacred triangles have become the basis of our world's providence
And the resting place of the triangles has become the Sacred Realm
Time passed, and the world grew restless. Those who would use the sacred triangles for their own ends became jealous, suspicious, and malicious. Blood was drawn and the people fell into madness and war. The goddesses commanded their servants to intervene-and intervene they did.
The tribes were separated and sent across the corners of the world. The Sacred Realm was sealed.
Ages passed again, and history was forgotten. Those who would use the power of the gods arose again. The goddesses, not wishing to destroy the world again, set out to solve this crisis in a gentler manner; and so the Hero Cycle was made. A single mortal hero would arise each time to protect the sacred triangles and save the people, each time drawing on the strength and legacy of all his predecessors to defeat the darkness. Each one a link in the timeless chain of the sacred trinity of villain, ruler and hero...
This is not one of those legends.
It is the year XXXXX HDS. (Hyrule Dating System) Hyrule, the ancient kingdom chosen by the gods, now an empire, leads the world in an age of freedom and prosperity. Trade and commerce has flourished and science and magic has grown in ways not even the primieval spirits would imagine. The Church has lost its stranglehold on society. A democratic Parliment has been established. General magic is available to almost all.
And yet the world is on the brink of war.
Rival nations quarell. Much of the world starves. Fanatical zealots commit murder in the streets. Wealthy merchants control the law and the poor are kept ignorant. There is speak of revolution.
Darkness spreads like a plague, infecting all with greed and malice.
There have been eight Heroes of the Cycle, each drawing on the might of one of the Nine Elements-Forest, Fire, Water, Wind, Spirit, Earth, Shadow, Light and Dark. Only the Hero of Darkness remains.
The Darkness has arrived.
The White Triforce
The Legend of Zelda: The White Triforce
I really don't see why Shadow, Spirit, and Darkness need to be three separate elements, as they are all essentially slight variations on the magic of the occult and the illusory.
Seems rather redundant to me.
Shadow is the same thing as 'twilight,' the essence in-between light and dark.
Shadow is what happens when an object blocks the light, casting a shadow. Darkness is where there is never any light at all-absolute. Nonetheless, I understand others seeing them as the same.
Spirit, though? Spirits are ghosts, souls, life and so on. That's not the same thing as darkness or space at all. Spirit is no more the same thing as darkness than forest is.
Except that shadow and twilight are distinctly not the same thing, neither in Zelda continuity nor in the English lexicon.
Google Dictionary on twilight:
"The soft glowing light from the sky when the sun is below the horizon, caused by the refraction and scattering of the sun's rays from the atmosphere."
In Twilight Princess, the concept of twilight is used as a thematic reference to both the uncertainty of Hyrule's fate (as in "the twilight of its existence") and to the nature of the twili people, existing in a world between the darkness and the light (you mentioned this above) and having a disposition between that of heroic and evil (Midna is not by any means a nice person, and was out for herself for most of the first act). Rusl quotes:
Tell me... Do you ever feel a
strange sadness as dusk falls?
They say it's the only time when
our world intersects with theirs...
...The only time we can feel the
lingering regrets of spirits who
have left our world.
That is why loneliness always
pervades the hour of twilight.
None of these interpretations are comparable to shadow in the Zelda series, which is associated primarily with death, evil, darkness, ghosts, and the undead. The spirits in the shadow temple, for example: "Shadow Temple... Here is gathered Hyrule's bloody history of greed and hatred..." The reaper statues, guillotines, coffins, torture devices, and the ferry across the phantom river all support this interpretation, which is not really close to twilight at all.
Aside from that, including Shadow, Spirit, and Darkness in your elemental magic system only serves to make it more convoluted than it needs to be -- why not just lump it all into darkness?
Let's run down the typical kinds of spells that would fall under spirit, shadow and darkness.
draining life force/spiritual energy
countering light magic
I fail to see why three separate elements are required when dark magic would allow you to do literally everything on this list. Please explain to me why darkness, shadow, and spirit are so incredibly distinct that they deserve to be on the same list as fire and water. Why is it important to the story that you have nine heroes in the cycle instead of just seven? Surely it's not because you didn't put any thought into balancing your magic system. When you have a magic system that's as complex as yours is, it really stands out when you throw in contrivances for no apparent reason. The story and magic system would function perfectly fine with just one element instead of three.
All I want to do is understand how you could possibly think this was a good idea. That would be delicious, gravy-flavored cocaine to my soul. Like when someone bakes a cake and it tastes like broken glass and rotten eggs -- sometimes you want to see what unfortunate events led to a mistake, for the sake of bettering your understanding.
(but you know i'm just joking, right? just bein' a lil rascal. typical me. I do want to know why you think they need to be separate though.)
Shadow and Darkness are loosely insinuated to be different in the cannon material in the Zelda universe. There's that there's a Sage and Temple of Shadow in Ocarina of Time, and there isn't any stated connection to evil or darkness-in fact, Gannondorf's darkness stuff is a bit different.
In Twilight Princess, Ganondorf himself speaks as darkness as something different from twilight/shadow.
"Shadow has been moved by light, it seems... How amusing." He constantly refers to the Twilight, or shadow, as something entirely different from his own power, darkness.
Shadow, while it's close to darkness, is not the same-note that darkness is always called precisely evil, whereas shadow/twilight has always been a bit vague. And there is a Sage of Shadow (Impa) who is certainly not evil-whereas the ruler of darkness, Ganondorf, is. The powers often shown to be connected to darkness in the series are also more directly connected to evil, energy and power, whereas shadow is always insubstantial things like illusions and necromancy.
I think you're assuming that the powers connected to each element follows more along traditional fantasy lines which have been extremely colored by the European Christian view-such as all necromancy, curses, spirits, demons and so on all belonging to darkness. By old folk-magic and pre-Christian European religions, this is not the case-these are multiple, different spheres of magic.
Spirit rules over the unseen essences of life, essentially, while forest rules the physical. In a sense, Forest is the yin, the physical, and Spirit is the spiritual, the soul. Spirits, ghosts, to a minor extent illusions, prophecy, and so on are connected to it. Spirit, thusly, affects minds and souls, (compulsion magic, enchantment and illusion) summons otherworldy beings, and affects bodiless spirits such as ghosts. There is some bleed-over with shadow, yes; they are not entirely the same thing, though. Just as both water and fire traditionally cover emotion and are not the same thing, Spirit and Shadow are different spheres.
Shadow, or Twilight, is the grey area between light and darkness. It's powers include powers that are likewise questionable (before the spread of Judeo-Christian religions into Europe, things like necromancy and demonology were not viewed as inherently bad) and fluid, usable for benevolence, morally neutral, self-serving or outright malignant endeavors. Shadow's powers generally have little direct, physical effect besides necromancy, largely being illusion and manipulation.
Darkness is outright powerful and destructive. It creates evil incarnate, inflicts curses and simply destroys, besides having space-altering effects, as absolute darkness is essentially either emptiness (space) or nothingness. It is the essence of evil made physical, essentially, and is, for the most part, inherently evil as its only uses are malicious. It is more physical than the insubstantial shadow, its magic more focused on direct results.
As for why, in terms of power, they are different-I'm quite familiar with how often casters are overpowered to the point that, after halfway through a game, (because Fighters are Linear and Casters are quadratic, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...adraticWizards this reverses the problem a lot of people face in real life, such as high school geeks being bullied by jocks, into the geeks ruling over the jocks, instead of actually fixing the problem of inequality) playing anything other than a spellcaster is no longer any fun. None of the other elements are as broad as darkness would be if spirit, shadow, and dark were combined into one. Fire only affects literal fire and heat, water affects water and ice, earth affects soil and stone, air affects wind and lightning, forest affects the flesh living organisms, and light affects physical light and, with it's stronger forms, time. Light doesn't cover all of the often associated powers such as healing, just as darkness is not a catch-all for everything even slightly evil, making it a 'master element' alongside light that likely completely overwhelms the more common elements.
And, of course, a character may be a mage that branches into more than one element. Nowhere have I said that a mage must choose one and only one-only that these are different branches of magic, and to keep that in mind. A player is welcome to make a typical 'squishy mage' who is skilled at two or three types of magic and little else.
Of course shadow and darkness aren't synonymous, thematically or otherwise in the games. That's not what I was getting at. You tried to equate Shadow and Twilight, which doesn't make sense, as I explained above, either in the games or in language. You claim that "Shadow is the same as twilight", yet this is not true. I will agree that Twilight =/= Darkness, and that Shadow =/= Darkness as you mentioned, but what I still want to know is why you think Shadow = Twilight when they are most definitely separate entities. I will also concede that both shadow and twilight can be considered intermediaries between light and true darkness, but that doesn't make them the same thing. Where's the reasoning there?
Thank you for explaining the magic system a little further, I appreciate that. Your spindle/thread/wheel system is cool, reminds me of DnD a little bit. Has that 3.5e vibe.
I have a long background in 3.5, and that has had an influence, and this actually was going to be a 3.5 campaign originally.
As for shadow/twilight, yes, there is a difference; I believe there is no such thing as synonyms, only related words. Still, I think dividing the 'grey area' in two-twilight would be the grey area more light inclined and shadow more dark inclined-would be splitting hairs too much. The whole idea of shadow/twilight as an element is to be exactly that-the grey area, and as such includes both shadow and twilight and other similar words. Shadow is just the word I most prefer to use as the collective name for it.
We're about to enter the 'conflict reveal'-ie, the central plot is about to become known. This will still be open for a long time if anyone wants to join.
Looks interesting, but the walls of text are off putting.