If you don't mind, I'll be applying this kind of theory to some little stories I will (Eventually) get around to making... Hopefully that medicine I was given doesn't make me lose my imagination.
"You have Imagination? I thought I was the one with that!"
"Shut up! Of course he has some. Of course, not enough to make a believable story!"
...Dear lord, I'm hearing voices again. I think it was better just talking to my brain o.o
Now that I think about it, how does someone with a multiple personality disorder exactly...come together?
Letting Destiny control your life is like giving up your free will. You have no real choice in your life, only a set path forced upon you. Some Destinies put you on a path of good, while others put you on a path of evil. However, Destiny forces you onto those paths sometimes, making you give up many things that define you. Destiny is in truth, a double edged sword. It cuts you just as deeply as it cuts into the paths of others.
Never let Destiny guide you. It may cause more harm to who you are than you think.
So, I read the whole thread and likely I am going to have a lot of questions. But I really liked the thread, and I'm glad its here. You tie the soul and brain together, but my question is this. IF you have sufficient control over the way mana flows, couldn't you in theory disconnect the two so your soul and body are separate? Going a little futher to say, that if you can and you use that ability to exist as raw energy, and even if you do this goes to the point of philosophy "If someone has true amnesia, are they same as before?" meaning, "Are we a collect of our memories, experiences, past and trials. OR are we defined by somethings else." Meaning, if we can't remember anything, say its entirely wiped out are we the same as before it happened? Will we make choices the same? If the brain and soul are connected and unable to be taken apart I'd have to say no, we become entirely different. But if the soul and brain different, if we lose everything that we were, but the soul is unaffected but everything is 'etched' there then we remain the same. This beings me back to the original point of why do you think they are 100% interconnected, and why can't they apart. If they grow separately, couldn't it be entirely plausible that they are separate?Brain and the Soul
ĎíSo whatís the deal with souls?íí Iím not sure where that question came from, but Iím glad you asked! Well, as you know, mana makes the structure of everything. However, this does not mean that all that is created is a direct result from mana flowing in order to become that structure. Actually, most things we see around us flow in a higher level of reality, with the structure of mana coming as a result. Our brains are part of that; at the moment of conception, a child is but a blob of cells. These cells have an underlying mana structure. As the child develops, it grows certain body parts, one of which is the brain. All parts of the body have an underlying mana structure, but the mana structure in the brain Ėbeing as complex as it is- is much more intricate. And even as we grow up, after being born, our brain is vastly more complex than the rest of our body, it being the place where our thoughts and memories reside. As a direct result, the underlying mana structure is also very complicated. This Ďknotí of mana is whatís called the soul. Itís not an entity thatís separate from the body; itís directly connected to the body.
Sorry if I'm not making much sense, I have issue putting my thoughts into words, and I may be way off base and if I am I'm sorry. I promise I'm not entirely insane, and I can try and explain it better if you need, but my over all questions are this. Could someone separate the soul and brain with enough skill in altering the flow of mana on a deep enough level, and if so isn't it possible that they could actually grow apart even exist apart from the beginning, thus giving someone a high level of natural insight to the way mana works?
Rule #1: Anything's possible.
Also, I think it will be partly explained in the section Soul Separation and part of a response I gave to someone else (I know, I should have updated the article after that). However, that may not be enough, so I will go further into it - thansk for challenging me!
The response I gave.
''Hm, good one. I think there is an excess amount of mana all around us, a sort of semi-raw mana if you will. This means there is a sort of ether-world, (although it is our world. We exist of mana) where there is more mana than we would normally perceive. If something is made of mana in a certain pattern, and that something is affected, it also affects the pattern. However, while we perceive that something as just that something, the pattern is not only the pattern, in the world of mana. There is more to it, resulting in an echo of its existence. If a rock is crushed, it must also happend in the pattern. However, if the rock is demolished even further, there is still an echoing pattern of that rock in the excess mana we can't see. A sort of fading impression. This would be the same for our soul; if someone dies and their brain processes stop - or their brain is entirely destroyed, there is still an echo of that mind in the other mana. However, the original pattern - the one that resembled the person when they were alive - only exists in a way that the person exists to be dead.''
So, one thing's for sure: There can be a soul without a body, if someone handles it properly. But can the soul -someone's identity, memories etc.- be its own thing, without any remnants in the brain? I mean, you can take echoing soul of the primary soul, and manifest it into a fullfledged soul, but then you basically copied it. But we want to remove the soul from the body altogether, so the primary soul is no longer present within the brain. This can be done: Examine the brain, and essentially make clear what the hardware and the software is. The mass of the brain is mostly that which contains a person. It is not the person. You need to look for the biochemcial processes which happen inside the brain, which is much more difficult. It's not just matter, it's an event. How do you 'get hold' of an action? Well... magic. So, in the unseen manaworld, we take the structure of the brain and seperate those things that make someone them, effectively disbanding the soul from the body. But you must be careful: This structure of mana now has even less manifesation in reality, so yes, you will have to be quite an adept magician AND have a lot of mana (to ensure its reality. Little mana forming the same structure is much more prone to random change). And voila, you didn't simply take the echoing soul after someone died - you took all that what makes a person, and seperated it from their physical form. Also, you have a drooling body with no mind - clean it up.
I just noticed your reply, but thanks for taking the time to read my question and reply. My next question is this, say some has practical knowledge of how to do something, has it entirely worked out but has no skill in doing it, does that make a difference? For example, someone know way to build something from the very base of mana, but yet have no ability to tap into enough mana its self to do. If they should find an area naturally heavy with the flow of mana, within your rules would they be able to do it or do they equal parts skills and knowledge?
Also, under your rules do you natural areas of high flow of mana exist such as "wells" of power? Like say for example a young mage was wandering in a forest and sudden felt something different, and when he went to use his abilities he found them enhanced, but lacking the knowledge/and or skill depending on your answer to there previous question, what would happen? Sorry, this isn't as much a question as a hypothetical but I'm curious none less, because back to my first question if someone just need knowledge and a lot of mana then it would be possible for them if they found such a place and had the knowledge/and or skill of how to it, correct? Again sorry I don't explain it right, I can go more in-depth on anything in PM if you need.
Well, it's true that someone needs both knowledge and skill. Take a martial art like Kung Fu for example: Someone might observe it intensely, take notes and memorize the movements from the outside, so he does have the knowledge. However, when actually performing them, he still needs years of practice. However, it works the other way around as well: He may work on his body all he wants, but if he never thinks about what he does it will never have any use. This is the same with magic: Just knowledge or just skill is not good enough.
Onto the flow of mana. Yes, there are places that may contain significant levels of mana. If the area around it has much less mana, however, it will quickly disperse. Though, if an entire forest, as you say, has a great deal of mana, then it will be useful for much longer. What effect does this have on the young mage, however? Well, if he has a lot of knowledge, but little skill, he has a greater chance of creating the thing he intents to create (remember, mana is still pretty random). So here high levels of mana may randomly make up for what little skill he has, but he should still work on that skill instead of depending on the forest. If he has, instead, great skill but no knowledge, he can create anything he wants but have no use for it. He doesn't know how to apply what he just created. And lastly, if a person has great knowledge and skill, he's already a respectable mage. But what does this forest do? 1) It manifests his creations much mroe firmly into reality. 2) It makes it easier to gather greater amounts of mana for spells that require charging up, before they can be cast at all (some spells have such in intricate structure that not charging them before casting them makes them not manifest in reality, so they'll only ripple through the echo-world.)
I hope this is what you asked for. At least it helped me figure things out :P.
Very much so, but before I go on are my questions bothering you? Because I actually really like this topic and am enjoy testing your theory. Anyway, if they are I'll stop but until you say otherwise lets move on.
Effects of mana on the body: They way you state your theory, it to me would seem like mana would have drawback effects on the body unless the mage is skilled and smart enough to counter it.
Hypothetical one; A young mage has just started his training, and while under the watch full eye of his master tries to cast a reconstructed mana weaving -because in terms of theory this seems more fitting than spell- to light a candle. However do to his lack of experience and knowledge he loses control over the mana.
With in the confines of your theory, to me it would seem like what would happen would be random anything from the mana particles exploding violently, to take on a new from. But my question is, during these early years isn't possible that they could be causing harm to there body while learning because of the random nature you has assigned to mana it is inherently possible that without them knowing exactly what its doing could it have a backlash effect from using their body a conduit for that kind of power? Lets go back to your mage in the forest.
This mage would have next to know knowledge of anything that could happen backlash effect wise. I'm going to compare him to a bowing player, expect all he can do is randomly throw the ball with as much power as he can and hope he knocks something down. Right? If, this oneIf he has, instead, great skill but no knowledge, he can create anything he wants but have no use for it.This one would be a step up, he know how to throw the ball, just now how much power to use, or anything of like. But because he know how to throw it his chanced of knocking something down are much high. However there is still a chance he could totally miss, or somehow hit himself. Finally we have the professional.Well, if he has a lot of knowledge, but little skill, he has a greater chance of creating the thing he intents to create (remember, mana is still pretty random).He can do basically anything with enough thought.And lastly, if a person has great knowledge and skill, he's already a respectable mage. But what does this forest do? 1) It manifests his creations much mroe firmly into reality. 2) It makes it easier to gather greater amounts of mana for spells that require charging up, before they can be cast at all (some spells have such in intricate structure that not charging them before casting them makes them not manifest in reality, so they'll only ripple through the echo-world.)
Hypothetical two:What happens to the first two arch types if set loose in a forest with high traffic of mana. Giving them enough power to -at the very least- create a pocket dimension inside of say a bag. Will that kind of raw power have any effect on their body if they get in over their head?
Back to the original question. How does mana effect an unskilled mages body? Or even a skilled mage, assuming they don't know if it has any effect(s)?
I love being asked question to make things clear to other people. I love it even more if they force me to make it clear for myself as well.
Now, I'm not sure I said anywhere that failing to cast a spell will result in dramatic effects. Imagine having a couple of wooden blocks that you can stack in various ways to build something. It could be a house, a tree, a person or whatever, but on a smaller-than-life scale. IN the primary situation -before you started building- they are scattered across the floor, not doing anything dangerous. In the next situation, you've built half of the wood-block house, but you misplace a block so that the miniature house loses its balance. Does the whole thing explode violently? No, it falls apart. The cat might need to take a step back, because its certain that there is a displacement of mass from a dense point, but what really happens is that the high concentration of blocks loses its structure and spreads out evenly across the floor.
Yes, there is a possibility that unskilled mages can hurt themselves while learning to cast spells, but not primarily because the mana structures supposedly explode in their faces. Its more likely that their fireballs are hard to control and fling towards them instead of somewhere else, but that's a matter of controlling the effect of a spell once it's created - not failing to create a spell and have it explode.
Note: Randomness is not necessarily dangerous chaos that uncontrollably destroys everything in its way. It's just unpredictable. - Meaning that when a mage with little skill but lots of mana has a greate chance of succesfully casting a fireball, due to pure luck. The truly chaotic, structureless mana exists outside of universes.
Second hypothesis: I'd say that if they are not able to control the magnitude of the pocket dimension that they're creating (which actually requires quite some skill), they could rip their body apart. Not from a failing spell, but the dimension also absorbing their own body, tearing a rift in space that cuts through themselves. Indeed, a gaping hole capable of cutting into their body and persist to exist would need a great deal of mana.
How does mana affect an unskilled mages body? It wouldn't necessarily cause any harm. Ay any given moment, every person bathes in mana. They are mana. Of course, when the mage casts a spell, that spell could cause damage by being fired in the wrong direction. If the spell fails, however, it just falls apart, dispersing back into the mana structure of the gasses in the air, the minerals in the ground, and the minimally structured mana in the echoing world.
What I did conclude from the last part is that mages must be wary of the mana they draw in, to cast their spell. They are mana, so they must be careful that they don't tear themselves apart for the sake of having enough mana. In the magic forest that shouldn't be a problem, though. There's enough to go around.
I love your replies by the btw.
Right, on to my next question is somewhat touches on all of my others so far. Soul possession. To use your soul, to over take or ride another persons and effective control with from with in there own body. Let assume out mage has, thus far found his forest, mastered his skills, and even detached his soul from his body. Can he over take someone else soul, or would he cause his to be destroyed in the process or would he hit a metaphysical wall in trying? OR some other serieno I'm missing? Sorry theres not much more indpeth thought in this, but I'm still far from done.
Also, the reason for all the questions is I'm comparing your theories to my own. But I assume you already figured that. I'm not very good at putting it all into words but if you have questions for me, about mine I can answer them. Hopefully.
Well, there would be a difference between whether that body has a soul or not. However, in the end antything is possible - you just have to figure out how (and some things are damn difficult!).
When the Master Wizard takes up the same spatial place as that of the body, it means nothing yet. That is, assuming that we have the soul manifest in the unseen Echoverse (I have to make clear that it's not some parallel world - It's the excess mana which is not manifested in a way that we can see it, but it's really there). Just being in the same place as the body does not matter, if the amount of mana is enough to be divided among different structures. Imagine having a piece of string, knotted into a figure. If you try to make a second figure, you need to have enough string.
Moving on, there are different ways in which to control a body, but you're specifically asking for direct possesion: a soul entering the body. In that case, the soul has to be attached to the body. It's basically a reverse process of what I described before: Removing the soul from the body. However, this is only 'that easy' for when a body longer has a soul. It gets trickier when the body already has a soul. There are now two (basic) possibilities: Two souls possesing the same body, or one 'exterior' soul containing two 'interior' souls. This is a bit vague, but essentially there will be two sets of memories, personalities and whatevers inside the same soul-knot. Of these possibilities, the latter is easier to manifest, as normally one body already has one soul, but the social mechanics will be strange and need more magical philosophy before they can be understood.
Now I'll move on to what you basically asked for if you break it down simply (well, what's 'simple' at this point?): A soul possesing another body which already has a soul. Weeeeeell, it's still not that simple. There are even more variations (like all the other things I've explained above, I just came up with this on the spot)! There's a difference between the soul coexisting with the original soul, or completely overriding it. Although, unlike the examples above, this difference matters less. Basically, if you want to override the other soul, you cast a completely new spell to put the other person out of business, while letting them linger in the same body. Anyway, if a new soul wants to enter the body it needs to attach itself to the body, just like when there's not a soul already possesing it. However, when two souls try to coexist, there's more continuous magic involved: relieve one soul of cotnrol and put the other in charge. And still, there are two ways to do this... You can have the two souls bonded with the general aura of the body, and have them take turnes being attached to the body - or you can attach them both to the body so they are simultaneously connected to it at all times. Now it comes down to putting a soul 'to rest', if you want just one to take charge (it will be attached but ineffective). Be wary, though: Things now get really tangled up in here, both in the brain and in the Echoverse (I think I'll keep reffering to it like that). High skill is required, in combination with certain levels of mana. If the mana levels are too low, we get the string-knot problem, and the only solution -if you want to keep both souls in place- is to have them melt into a single entity. Aside from that, it should be interesting to see what happens if one persolity controls one part of the body, and the other personality controls a different part. Or if they both try to control what the same hand does. Talk about teamwork!
Aaaaaaaanyway, while you helped me understand it, by having me figure things out for myself, I hope I was able to explain it to you in return. I have to admit, this was the one I had the most trouble with :P. So far...