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Thread: Godwin's Law, the thread

  1. #1
    Chibi Aztec is Best Aztec Elendra's Avatar
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    Godwin's Law, the thread

    The following is an entire article written on Hitler's religious association...

    It was not written by me, and I'm not entirely sure where its original source was, but please, read before ignoring, spouting off your personal beliefs, and then not doing anything actively on topic.



    Spoiler


    That all said, read, and whatever... uh... yeah. I think it's a good read, and people should keep this in mind when they try to paint Hitler as an omnicidal atheist.

    If you wanted something better for that, pick Stalin ( although atheism wasn't his reasoning... )

    Anyway, this has been a public service announcement.











    -- NOTE --

    Okay, realized after I did all this ( and this isn't an edit, realized this BEFORE I submitted ) that this may have some level of discussion, so, lemme guide...

    What are your thoughts on the question if Hitler is Christian or not?

    If Hitler was Atheist, does that make what he did any worse?

    Why do people use Hitler as the 'OMG HORRIBLE ATHEIST MONSTER' when that's arguable, and there are others more reliably atheist that have done worse?

    Why does their being atheist matter?

    How long until this thread is locked?

    Why can't you all be civil?

    *cough*

    Anyway, uh, yeah. Enjoy, folks!

  2. #2
    星が地上を歩く Asuras's Avatar
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    If Hitler was Atheist, does that make what he did any worse?
    He killed people. A lot of people. Whether he did it with a cross in hand or with his bare fists doesn't make it any different.

    Is it strange that I've never actually felt Hitler was ever atheist, nor ever seen much around me to indicate that people in general think of him as such? :\




  3. #3
    Semper Augustus Sora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
    He killed people. A lot of people. Whether he did it with a cross in hand or with his bare fists doesn't make it any different.
    So "No".

    I agree.

  4. #4
    Verbs Outlawed's Avatar
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    He killed tons of people for no other reason besides "they don't fit in my perfect world," which is a little ironic considering what features he thought were perfect or ideal. Christianity was just a neat little scapegoat.
    When life gives you lemons, you the eat the lemons raw, barf on life and then proceed to smack it around like the cruel idiot it is

    All baked goods entering these premises will immediately be poisoned. Survivors will be eaten.

    "I think that everyone has one. A little piece of their heart that makes them interesting. A little button that says: 'Do not push.'"
    -Rock, Paper, Cynic

  5. #5
    Chibi Aztec is Best Aztec Elendra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outlawed View Post
    He killed tons of people for no other reason besides "they don't fit in my perfect world," which is a little ironic considering what features he thought were perfect or ideal. Christianity was just a neat little scapegoat.
    >scapegoat

    Did you read how heavily christian all of his upbringing and ideologies were?

    And on top of that, his 'perfect little world' sure did allow a lot of alliances with people who wouldn't fit in.

    Like, the Italians.

    All relations with the Middle East.

    Japan.

    ---------- Post added at 01:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlawed View Post
    He killed tons of people for no other reason besides "they don't fit in my perfect world," which is a little ironic considering what features he thought were perfect or ideal. Christianity was just a neat little scapegoat.
    Actually, lemme do this step by step.

    Let's say we have two ways reality was.

    Hitler was atheist, christianity was a scapegoat.

    Hitler was christian.

    Let's look at the facts.

    Hitler was raised Christian from the beginning.

    Hitler's views were very common and popular for Christians at that time.

    Hitler's views were supported by the Church in some regards.

    Hitler purportedly did this for other reasons, that involve himself as imperfect.



    Let's compare.

    Either, his strong Christian Upbringing and Christian Prejudices were responsible for the birth of his anger and hate.

    Or he somehow for other reasons unknown and speculated, adopted hypocritical hate that took on a very similar form to the former reality.

    Simplest solution being best, the first reality is best.

    ---------- Post added at 01:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:32 AM ----------

    Taking that further, those he aligned himself with were either Pro Christian, or not involved in it much one way or the other, while his primary targets were still of Christian Prejudices.

  6. #6
    Verbs Outlawed's Avatar
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    Perhaps I should have worded it a bit differently. Yes, he had alliances with people from all different sorts of ideas and backgrounds, but Germany and Japan would have inevitably gone to war with each other sooner or later had they won, not to mention any conquered countries would become quickly oppressed and widely discriminated against, and all sorts of little bits of bobs of which we could all theorize together.

    And yes I said scapegoat, as in something to place all blame on. I never specified who for, and this is entirely my fault. Perhaps a nice little break between lines. That being said, the last comment was for the article, stating the Hitler's intense Christian ties and beliefs was the reason for the Holocaust and all other horrors and then going to to extensive detail explaining why. It doesn't matter his religion, Hitler killed people. Innocent people who did nothing wrong besides worshipping their god just a tad different from Hitler.
    When life gives you lemons, you the eat the lemons raw, barf on life and then proceed to smack it around like the cruel idiot it is

    All baked goods entering these premises will immediately be poisoned. Survivors will be eaten.

    "I think that everyone has one. A little piece of their heart that makes them interesting. A little button that says: 'Do not push.'"
    -Rock, Paper, Cynic

  7. #7
    Chivalric Expert Ender Wiggin's Avatar
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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_H...stian_Churches

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_H...ate_statements

    Basically everyone close to Hitler, who heard what he said in private, he was using Christianity.

    From Albert Speer,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Speer

    "You see, it's been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn't we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness" -Adolf Hitler

    Anyway, it's a false premise as well. Hitler's upbringing wasn't strong.

    Hitler's father Alois, though nominally a Catholic, was somewhat religiously skeptical
    Spoiler


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  8. #8
    Chibi Aztec is Best Aztec Elendra's Avatar
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    devout Catholic mother
    Forgot to mention the mom

    Also

    a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

    b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school. (On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monastery’s coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

    c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.
    Yeah, totally not all into it.

    Also

    According to the controversial collection of transcripts edited by Martin Bormann, titled Hitler's Table Talk, as well as the testimony of some intimates, Hitler had privately negative views of Christianity. Others reported he was a committed believer.
    Some people say he was, others that he wasn't.

  9. #9
    Chivalric Expert Ender Wiggin's Avatar
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    Find someone closer to Hitler than Goebbles, and then we'll talk.

    Anyway, I know a lot of altar boys and whatnot who ended up potheads, or only did it to begin with because their mom's made them. nice changing "practicing" to devout on my wiki quote.

    Anyway, he can say he's Christian all he wants, (which, privately, he contradicted that,), but even if he didn't, a Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ. Hitler did not do that, therefore, he is not a Christian.
    Spoiler


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  10. #10
    Semper Augustus Sora's Avatar
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    You know who else was Hitler?
    Hitler.

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