Categorizing Categories?

[Faeryx]

Maybe this it's just me, but when I see 'High Casual' or 'Low Advanced', I cringe a little. To me that doesn't really make sense, it kind of just seems like making excuses, more so in the case of 'Low Advanced' than 'High Casual'. I suppose High Casual is understandable, writers who like to write and command their ability well, but don't feel like they're quite good enough for Advanced, it's still casual though no matter which way you spin it.

Low Advanced is a different story though. I haven't seen this phrased use a lot, and it's only recently surfaced to my knowledge, but this is actually kind of an upsetting principal. I fail to understand how someone can consider themselves 'Low Advanced', maybe it's that famous Advanced elitism, but Advanced is a rather exclusive term. You're an Advanced roleplayer or you aren't. I suppose the true question here is:

Is Low Advanced an acceptable subgroup of Advanced roleplayers or not?

I personally would have to say no. As stated above, you're an Advanced roleplayer or you aren't, there are of course different skill levels even within Advanced, but some of the recent material that I have been seeing touted at Advanced is far from it. I am obligated to mention names when I say that not all of us are quite as good as say Kadaeux or Sarzu who, in my experience, are outstanding writers. Yet, I still struggle with some of the questionably advanced Advanced RPs, and I am just wondering if others feel the same way.

[Kestrel]

I remember listing an RP as 'low-advanced' but it was purely to poke fun at 'high-casual.' I had no idea it became a thing. This is hilarious.

But yeah no, 'high-casual' is mostly an ego-thing. Which is pathetic because hey you can write two paragraphs congratulations, here's your 'no-really-i-srsly-am-a-big-deal' shirt/hat/cake. I feel categorising categories is bullshit, but hey I think a lot. Mostly that I ran casual RP's that could have easily been ran in advanced due to site standards, but I purposely ran them in casual anyway due to the crowd and mindset I wanted to attract. I would not have had and don't have any issue with single paragraph posts, because it's casual, but the majority of players whips up posts that could easily go in advanced. I wouldn't dream of calling it high-casual, because the game is open to everyone who can write 'casual' posts. What kind of posts get in there depends on the people that post.

The funny thing is, when I create an RP for advanced, I specifically tailor that RP for a different crowd and style of RP'ing.

The moment you get to understand what the sections really mean, which are a minimum and a certain set of preferences for games, topics and posts like these are just silly.

[MisterGrey]

Well, the problem stems from the fact that Advanced is such a broad category. If your posts average out to be more than a few paragraphs, then you're categorized as an "Advanced RP'er". Some people may not feel comfortable holding themselves up to that standard, not thinking they can write posts that long all the time, particularly not in dialogue or combat, or perhaps they see the really long-winded writers whose posts can be a page long, and don't think they quite match up with them. Thus, the term "Low-advanced RP'er".

As for creating an RP specifically targeting these kinds of people, however, I'd have to agree with you. It's only natural that you'll get variations in writing ability and post length, and if you don't think you can keep up with all the Advanced writers, post your RP in Casual.

[Darkmatter]

Maybe this it's just me, but when I see 'High Casual' or 'Low Advanced', I cringe a little. To me that doesn't really make sense, it kind of just seems like making excuses, more so in the case of 'Low Advanced' than 'High Casual'. I suppose High Casual is understandable, writers who like to write and command their ability well, but don't feel like they're quite good enough for Advanced, it's still casual though no matter which way you spin it.

Low Advanced is a different story though. I haven't seen this phrased use a lot, and it's only recently surfaced to my knowledge, but this is actually kind of an upsetting principal. I fail to understand how someone can consider themselves 'Low Advanced', maybe it's that famous Advanced elitism, but Advanced is a rather exclusive term. You're an Advanced roleplayer or you aren't. I suppose the true question here is:

Is Low Advanced an acceptable subgroup of Advanced roleplayers or not?

I personally would have to say no. As stated above, you're an Advanced roleplayer or you aren't, there are of course different skill levels even within Advanced, but some of the recent material that I have been seeing touted at Advanced is far from it. I am obligated to mention names when I say that not all of us are quite as good as say Kadaeux or Sarzu who, in my experience, are outstanding writers. Yet, I still struggle with some of the questionably advanced Advanced RPs, and I am just wondering if others feel the same way.

I agree. Casual is fine, I play there too. But advanced is called such for a reason. There is no such thing as 'Low Advanced' and anything labelled as such should be Casual. There's nothing wrong with that either, heck some of the 'casual' RPs I've been in have taken the cake with grammar, quality and length

[Jorick]

I don't have any problems with some categorizing categories. High Casual is fine as far as I'm concerned, because it's simply a shorthand way for saying "hey, this RP is in the Casual section but I'm going to require more than the bare minimum standards for the section." That's a totally legitimate thing to put in your interest check or OOC thread to let people know you're going to expect higher quality fare than the average Casual RP, say something like 2-3 paragraphs with good grammar/spelling and no posts that don't advance the plot or your character in some way. Completely reasonable expectations for an RP that fits in Casual, so no reason to move it to Advanced if you want the laid back crowd. That sort of reasoning is why High Casual is a fine term, in my opinion.

But being 'Low Advanced' is the opposite issue. Plain old Advanced means you're meeting the bare minimum of say three paragraphs per post with good spelling and grammar and no fluff posts. So what the hell is 'Low Advanced?' 2 paragraphs required and not caring about poor spelling? That stuff belongs in Casual. There's no good rationale for having low whatever be a real thing like there is for High Casual being a real category, so it's a bad term that should die.

Luckily, I haven't seen it actually used yet outside of a friend making a joke about High Casual, calling it Low Advanced. If people do start using it for RPs in Advanced, I'll probably be the kind of jerk to report them for needing to be moved to Casual.

[MisterGrey]

Luckily, I haven't seen it actually used yet outside of a friend making a joke about High Casual, calling it Low Advanced.

I remember listing an RP as 'low-advanced' but it was purely to poke fun at 'high-casual.' I had no idea it became a thing. This is hilarious.

Hm. This is kind of interesting. I haven't actually seen any "Low advanced" RP's around anyway. I just saw "High casual" and assumed it was an actual thing when the OP mentioned it. Could it be we're getting worked up over nothing.

Of course, this may be explained by the fact that I'm rarely even on advanced, preferring to stick to, well, high casual. Well, no need to point fingers, but I'll keep an eye out over the next few days...

[Faeryx]

Like I said, it's not a common occurance to see a Low Advanced RP, but I have seen it before. This was also kind of directed at people that make Advanced RPs that don't meet Advanced standards. I've seen accepted character sheets in Advanced RPs where everything was essentially one line except maybe the character biography, which was far from quality writing. I have just avoided specifc examples for the sake of not being too mean.

[Kestrel]

I've seen accepted character sheets in Advanced RPs where everything was essentially one line except maybe the character biography, which was far from quality writing

Which by site standards is fine, because it doesn't say anything about character sheets or applications at all. ie; elitism on your part.

I rarely if ever see RP's in advanced below advanced standards. Also from what I've seen high-casual IS advanced, most of the time. Sure, I don't nose around every single RP out there. It would be a waste of time to do so. Meeting advanced standards means two paragraphs and using a spell-checker. That's nothing. Oh and move the game forward in a significant manner (which honestly is the biggest problem people have when it comes to meeting standards in advance, but let's not get into that.) If you really, really have to nose around in games you don't belong in and don't mind being an intrusive bitch, sure go ahead and report them to be bumped down to casual. Just know that them's the rules; two paragraphs, spell check, post-significance.

[Darkmatter]

Which by site standards is fine, because it doesn't say anything about character sheets or applications at all. ie; elitism on your part.

I rarely if ever see RP's in advanced below advanced standards. Also from what I've seen high-casual IS advanced, most of the time. Sure, I don't nose around every single RP out there. It would be a waste of time to do so. Meeting advanced standards means two paragraphs and using a spell-checker. That's nothing. Oh and move the game forward in a significant manner (which honestly is the biggest problem people have when it comes to meeting standards in advance, but let's not get into that.) If you really, really have to nose around in games you don't belong in and don't mind being an intrusive bitch, sure go ahead and report them to be bumped down to casual. Just know that them's the rules; two paragraphs, spell check, post-significance.

In my honest opinion I think the Advanced standards need to be bumped up. A lot. To be honest I think that the guidelines set for Advanced are more suited to Casual. There just is no difference between high casual and some lower end advanced threads. In fact some high casual are more deserving of an advanced labelling than some of the lower-grade Advanced.

Again this is just all my opinion.

[Jorick]

I agree with Darkmatter. The standards between the different levels are so close together that they're more a half step than a real step up. Free is whatever, no standards, as it should be. Casual should be 2-3 paragraphs that "include character development and coherent writing ability," that quoted bit taken from the actual Advanced standards message. Come on, character development and coherent writing are not any thing advanced, those are basic writing proficiency; if you're not coherent and not advancing the plot, you belong in Free. Advanced standards should be, well... advanced. Something like "focus on longer posts that display a high skill in writing and character development," to keep the vague phrasing currently used.

Honestly, this is kind of what the skill levels of those boards are anyway (as far as I have seen), due to the elitism of many Advanced players keeping others away until they far exceed the current bare minimum standards. I rarely ever see Casual RPs where everyone is posting single paragraphs that struggle to advance the plot. I rarely ever see Advanced RPs where average post length is less than ~5 paragraphs and people aren't pretty skilled with the English language. Maybe I'm just not looking around enough, but that's what I see. People already perceive a much larger gap than is written, so why not change the board blurb to match?

Also, this would probably legitimize High Casual games so people can stop complaining about them not being a real category. That would be a good thing, I think.