Grammar: How Advanced is the Advanced section?

[Brovo]

This I do not agree with. I am currently running a Transformers RPG in casual and it have tons of characters, allot of character development and deep, emotional themes. Some of us play allot in the casual section not because we do not want the work and the content expected in advanced but because we are tired of being picked on for small spelling and grammar mistakes. I even started a game in advanced once and had folks coming into the interest check just to pick on my grammar and spelling, such things drives allot of good roleplayers out of the advanced section and looking for games in casual instead while we still want the content and deep, involving stoylines.

Ergo why I said that you don't have to have deep content and what not in Casual. You can go for the quick bang badda boom actiony popcorn B-Grade stuff if you want there and nobody will bat their eyes twice about it. If you want to do deep, intricate and emotional stories and what not in Casual, that's open and available as well.

As for people grammar Nazi raiding your advanced interest check(s), I apologize for that. I swear that's not normal and I try to fight the elements that promote that to the death. Still, you're having fun in casual, and it's working for you. Keep doing it, keep having fun. Show those grammar Nazis whose better.

[Dudel]

I even started a game in advanced once and had folks coming into the interest check just to pick on my grammar and spelling,

Report them.

[Ellri]

hit them in the head with a brush soaked in target paint. or was that a mallet soaked in it? If that is insufficient, call in the airstrike. you've got the target painted after all...


anyways, our impressions are that advanced tends to have fairly long posts, but so can high casual have. It is more of a preference for the GMs. For the most part, once post lengths begin to grow, the grammar will to a large degree assert itself automatically. Not always, but much of the time. the typical errata found in free, simply don't make it out of post writing in advanced.

People who have serious grammar issues, not just minor errors here and there, generally have trouble writing the lengths and content quality common to many advanced RPs. Character sheets for the advanced RPs we've joined, require fairly complex background and the people who struggle with grammar, tend to not be able to have that complexity easily at hand.

While we don't like bad grammar ourselves, we detest those who nitpick on minor things. (we've caught ourselves doing it a couple of times, and that does not leave a nice tingly feeling in the stomachs.)

[Melon]

Good advertising, rather than promoting a product, targets a desire. That's the main part I wanted to point out with Brovo's guide; know your audience. Know what they want and adjust your pitch to get their attention.

Dudel's is mainly to, yes, make your game accessible in order to draw in a larger audience. This equips you properly to play the inevitable numbers game. It's not 'prostitution,' it's exactly as it says on the tin; a survivalist guide to ensure survival. No more no less. As with any guide, you don't have to follow it literally, in fact you probably shouldn't, but it's wise to make some form of compensation between ideologies, if only to understand the core values they're derived from.

HeySeuss, also explains that such a structure is a hook. Likewise, if you were hiring a secretary, get twenty resumes, but five of them use 'there' where they should have used 'they're,' wouldn't you be biased before you even got to the content? Same way, if people look for a fantasy roleplay and see a lot of different interest checks, but yours sticks out because of the first thing they notice; presentation, well; you're already ahead!

I applied some of these "teachings" to my interest check in the advanced section, just to see if it would have any effect at all and to see whether my own thesis was solid or not. Its original state attracted 2-3 people that were interested in the idea, but held back by the standards. After dramatically chopping the standards down, offering options, offering help and compromises, and structuring the layout I only netted 3-4 people that were interested, but who are still interested and have/are posting character sheets. One of them said that he wanted to say that his desire to be involved was because of the new layout, but then admitted that it was only because one of his other RPs had recently died and left him with spare time. However, I've read too much about human psychology and the effects of advertisement to personally enjoy the outcome of doing things this way. You force people, subconsciously, to like your idea which only results in the players needing more and more carrots on that stick in order to stay, whereas if the players are genuinely interested in your idea they'll stay no matter what your layout looks like. But I suppose that's not what these men are trying to say with their guides, I certainly hope not; having a nice layout is just,well, nice for the eyes.

snip

Thanks for your input Haga.

tl;dr: Content =/= Wrapper it comes in. TVTropes > Dictionary & Thesaurus.

Considering what we've spoken about in this thread, asking people to know when and where to use commas and be "willing to learn more" equals a death sentence; you can't expect people to know/want this when they don't give two shits about the difference of "its" and "it's".

While we don't like bad grammar ourselves, we detest those who nitpick on minor things.

Bitching about grammar and not offer help or say what it is the person did wrong is one thing, commenting on grammar and helping out is another all together. If a person has a disability then fine, but if someone is just reluctant to look into the things that has been commented on it just reeks of "unwillingness to learn", ignorance, and a big "fuck you".

[Ellri]

indeed. complaining rather than pointing out how to improve is a bad thing.

[Brovo]

Considering what we've spoken about in this thread, asking people to know when and where to use commas and be "willing to learn more" equals a death sentence; you can't expect people to know/want this when they don't give two shits about the difference of "its" and "it's".

The content of the post, the meat of a story, is always vastly more important than the package it comes in. Essentially, which would you rather have: A shiny turd, or a functional oven with the occasional scratch and ding on it?

TVTropes > Dictionary & Thesaurus indicates that I have a preference for an appropriate understanding over basic stereotypes and tropes over proper spelling and grammar. > Is the "Greater Than" sign! This is basic math! !

TVTropes is a website you can easily input into Google. It is a collection of stereotypes and tropes which define genres, television, role playing, movies, video games and more. Someone who is extremely "genre savvy" is a million times more useful than someone who knows advanced language comprehension skills because I can easily and quickly explain to people who are genre savvy what, exactly, my story is. I don't have to be long winded with these people. They're EXTREMELY useful to me!

...So where in the world did you get the idea that I was arguing for commas or grammar anywhere? As for "willing to learn more", if someone is not willing to learn more... Why would you bother arguing this? Ever? For any reason? These people have no interest in cooperating or working with you if they outright refuse to learn anything. Therefore... Not worth your time. Therefore... Not worth arguing. At all.

[Kestrel]

I applied some of these "teachings" to my interest check in the advanced section, just to see if it would have any effect at all and to see whether my own thesis was solid or not. Its original state attracted 2-3 people that were interested in the idea, but held back by the standards. After dramatically chopping the standards down, offering options, offering help and compromises, and structuring the layout I only netted 3-4 people that were interested, but who are still interested and have/are posting character sheets.

Let's not forget the phase where you had no replies whatsoever, but eh, good for you that's an improvement over both regardless.

One of them said that he wanted to say that his desire to be involved was because of the new layout, but then admitted that it was only because one of his other RPs had recently died and left him with spare time.

"Did you know you looked to the right side of that painting first because of the predominant use of red?"

"No, I just kinda liked that."

However, I've read too much about human psychology and the effects of advertisement to personally enjoy the outcome of doing things this way. You force people, subconsciously, to like your idea which only results in the players needing more and more carrots on that stick in order to stay, whereas if the players are genuinely interested in your idea they'll stay no matter what your layout looks like.

I'm not really going to humour you on your definition of marketing, but ironically this quote is also where you tackle your own argument, simply by using the word 'subconsciously.' Subconscious processes, as I sincerely hope you're aware of (har har,) cannot always be described or even realised by the persons experiencing them. The only way to truly prove your situation here is to recreate the 'experiment' and throw an fMRI on it. I'll be sincerely impressed if you do that too. Until then... Well... No.

Honestly though? You got four people interested and posting character sheets when you experimented with the guides I gave you. That should be enough for you to be happy with. You get to play the game you wanted to, but instead you come back to argue what? Pure coincidence. You come back with the argument of pure coincidence. Look at yourself.

[Dudel]

Yeah... sounds like he's 3 steps ahead of where he was before. o.O Why for complain?

[Hagazussa]

To Brovo:

Ergo why I said that you don't have to have deep content and what not in Casual. You can go for the quick bang badda boom actiony popcorn B-Grade stuff if you want there and nobody will bat their eyes twice about it. If you want to do deep, intricate and emotional stories and what not in Casual, that's open and available as well.

Ok then I agree with you.

As for people grammar Nazi raiding your advanced interest check(s), I apologize for that. I swear that's not normal and I try to fight the elements that promote that to the death. Still, you're having fun in casual, and it's working for you. Keep doing it, keep having fun. Show those grammar Nazis whose better.

I play in both casual and in advanced, and I have fun in both. As for grammar Nazis as you call them, if they do it in their own games I have no problem with it, if I am not wanted in a game then fine I will leave the GM have final word, but when they come to my games and cause problems, or when other players just can not stand that a piece of text is not perfect then I get a bit pissed at it.

To Dudel:

Report them.

Perhaps I should have, but I rather ignored them, the game got off the ground and ran for a good long while before it ended so all well.

[Blazed]

I just found this thread now. I've read a good number of the comments. Not all, but enough to understand the general idea of what is going on. I have to say being grammar strict in advanced to the point that you are pointing out is a little extreme. Not all writers will have the same knowledge of grammar. Some people use rping as a way to improve their writing and go to advanced based. They do this by adding details to their posts and lengthen them. People who do this just want a little more then a paragraph to work with. Not everyone is going to be amazing at grammar, not very many people in my mind are. I know my grammar is kinda shitty, but writing gives you some free range to work around it. If you get the basic idea then work with it. If not always go to the rper and ask questions. You don't know the history behind the person rping. They may be younger but have longer and more detailed posts and haven't covered or don't cover grammar in school. They just work with the way they believe is right. If you don't like their writing style then you can always ask them to leave, or leave yourself (if it is not your rp). I myself have a learning disability that I've been working around through rping. It was my way of self teaching myself through reading other's writing and writing myself. Yes I didn't start in advanced, but I worked my way up there. Some people may be just like me, others just may not have really cared for grammar but love writing. We are here to have fun and be creative. If everyone was truly serious about everything they did here (rather then it being for the fun of writing) they would be writing novels. Not posts online. This is just what I believe. I'm not sure how much of this has been covered, but I thought I'd throw my thoughts out there, since I take this as a very serious thing. Rping to me is more for the fun of writing, not to be like all about the grammar. I don't even think about grammar when I'm writing. I just write. Let it out. Improve as I go.

~Blazed