Reply With QuoteI object! My RPs don't have plot holes!
They're more like Chasms it'd take a week to go around or a month to build a bridge across(A consequence of VERY freeform RPing despite my stricter sheet creation process
About a week ago I popped the bubble where it concerns what is most important in a role play. Now that I've put down that plot is not required for a role play to succeed, I'm going to do a little retcon and introduce plots for role plays, to prevent a polar opposite of hatred of plots instead of adoration of plots.
Plots deserve neither adoration or hatred. They're a tool in a role play, an optional one, and one I'm going to do my best to explain what they are, how to use one, and why you might want to use one in a concise manner.
Part A: What is a plot?
A plot is, simply, A fictional(ized) series of events that have some connection. (I love TVTropes.) It is comprised of cause and effect, emotional motivation, and reason. In a role play, a proper plot comes in two pieces. The first piece is potential plans, the second piece is character generated.
Cause and effect is, in essence, action and reaction. If I push a cow and it falls over, it'll moo in annoyance and get back up. (Green = action, red = target of action, orange = reaction) Since actions and reactions drive a role play forward, this is the most likely place you will see cause and effect put into play during a story in a role play. HOWEVER! This does not exempt a role play from having cause and effect occur independently of the players to drive a story forward, which can be useful if the players are stuck in a rut and need something to help get them motivated. It can also be abused and cause railroading. (Addressed below.)
Emotional motivation is, in essence, the reason characters find themselves fighting a dragon, exploring a cave, pursuing a romance, or otherwise. It is typically and almost notoriously the main reason actions occur at all in a role play. "Why did I knock over a cow? Because I wanted to." If a character has no emotional attachment to a scene, to a goal, to their fellow characters... It means they have no reason to be loyal towards them, and it can create significant issues later on. Now I'm not stating that every character needs to be drama queens--they just need to be human enough to feel emotions, or at least understand the concept of emotions.
Note, though, that emotional motivation can and does occur separately of a plot in the case of role playing. Two characters might pursue a romance that has nothing to do with the main goal of the story, for example. It can also be circumvented or subverted by an especially clever role player, like in the case of a robot programmed with Asimov's three laws.
Reason is, in essence, the logical and ethical reasons characters fight for or against something. Saving a princess from a tower guarded by a dragon could result in money (logic), it could be the right thing to do to save the damsel (ethics), etc. This is why a lot of stories across all mediums--novels, plays, movies, etc--either use down to earth tales centred around the simple life of a single person (often in the genre of romance or murder mystery), or an epic whose effects typically span across an entire kingdom, world, empire, or even the entire universe. It is fairly rare to find stories in the middle of these two extremes because it's much harder to write convincing reason for this while keeping it interesting.
Reason is typically where most plots in role plays fall. Hard. Typically because logical and ethical reasons are forgotten in the myriad of focus on biographies, or intense purple prose descriptions of the scenario or world the adventure is taking place in. Reasons should be ideally kept as simple and broad as possible. "Why are we saving anime characters from kidnappers? Because we're Otakus! (Ethics)" "Why are we helping a princess banish Gods? Because those Gods are evil meanies who kill people! (Ethics)" "Why are we fighting to destroy the enemy army? Because we're getting paid and we'll be executed if we desert the army. (Logical x2)" Etc.
Now, for the two parts of a plot.
Potential Plans: Plans set forth by a GM and/or player(s) concerning the future of their/other(s) character(s) in some manner. The simplest and most idealistic example one could think of is "Bob wants to romance Sally. Bob makes plans to bring Sally out near a pond one evening." Player controlling Bob informs the GM of their plan and asks if they can fit it in somewhere. GM works with player to set the scene up, the player controlling Sally is likely brought in to talk about it. Several posts later, Bob attempts to romance Sally by a pond.
The end.
This is more often used by GM's, trying to have some idea of where they are going with their players. Example: Bob, Sally, Joe, John, Jimmy, and Jah'vier are adventurers out to rescue the princess. They will need to travel through lands X, Y, and Z to reach where she slumbers in a tower, protected by a dragon. The GM can loosely plan what X, Y, and Z is like. Maybe X is a forest, Y is a small elven town, and Z is a swamp. Now the GM has at least some idea of where he is going, without having to use piles of exposition in the OOC which could drive away potential players or choke the plot with excessive information.
Most importantly, the reason these are "potential plans" is because at any point, the players can act outside of expectations. Sally might die before Bob can reach the romance scene with her. In the middle of a heated battle Joe might be injured badly in the forest, thus the players decide to take a detour to a "lake in the west with healing properties" instead to save their comrade (plot change: ethics), etc. This is one of the things that sets role playing apart from writing; a static, well-planned, intricate plot can be derailed and murdered by one character committing to one action that does not coincide with the plot the GM has in mind. Whereas a role play with open ended goals and areas with only potential, temporary plans in mind can easily be adjusted to suit the whims of the players.
Character Generated: This part comes in later in a role play, typically after a few months/several pages of play. A history of actions and reactions between characters with each other and their environment, that in some way, shape, or form creates a history of events that ends up affecting the present. Cause and effect. Actions, and consequences of those actions. This again differentiates from writing in that plots are not created ahead of time. Plots end up being created after the fact to explain and connect a series of actions by the characters.
Part B: How do you use it?
Create a story, fan fiction or original it doesn't really matter in the end. Lay out the conflict at the heart of the story. Be it something peaceful like students attempting to work together to pass a magical high school class, or adventurers out to slay a dragon and save a princess. Keep it simple--simple is good. Complexity comes later by natural cause.
(Required) Give the reason why characters would want to resolve the conflict. The high school one has it built in--"I want to pass in order to succeed at life!! (Logic)" The princess one? Either derive it from ethics--"I'm a good guy and I must do the moral thing!"--Or tie it into a logical reward, such as earning money, being granted positions of power in the kingdom, etc.
Do not give players their emotional motivations for them. They are the ones creating the characters. Characters are the ones to use emotional motivations. Therefore, it is on the heads of the players, not the GM to create emotional ties for their characters to the story.
Use potential plans to set up scenes which appeal to individual players, or to create drama and intensify the story's atmosphere with tension and/or excitement.
Do not be afraid of plot holes. If you notice one and it's slowing things down, mention it and find a way to navigate around it. Due to the nature of role playing, plot holes are as inevitable as death. That's being honest. My RP's have them, Kadaeux's RP's have them, HeySeuss' RP's have them, Shon Harris' RP's have them--no matter how hard you try to get away from them, they can, and will, appear.
Part C: Why would you use it?
To help create a logical, grounded sense of where the story is. To add themes. To give it a more novel-like atmosphere. Basically any reason you feel like using it, probably isn't invalid or wrong. It's personal taste whether you want to intentionally use it or discard it.
INDEX OF TERMS
Railroading: When a GM forces players to do what the plot dictates. Enslaving characters to the narrative, instead of having characters create and drive the narrative of their own whims. This is bad as it takes the choices out of the hands of the players, which defeats the purpose of role playing in the first place. It's also generally rude to force people to do as you say just because they didn't do as you told them to do earlier.
And that's all! I hope this helped and I invite discussion, commentary, criticism and more from all sources, so long as it remains civil. I'm not out to create a flame bait thread.
Last edited by Brovo; 11-21-2012 at 05:40 PM.
I object! My RPs don't have plot holes!
They're more like Chasms it'd take a week to go around or a month to build a bridge across
There was literally a scene in Glomp! once where all our characters kinda sat around pointing out plotholes for humor's sake...
Good times.
Well, I dunno, even if you don't PLAN your plots doesn't mean that they don't happen. So in that theory, freeform RolePlay is really just a bunch of RPer's weaving a plot together without a pre-established medium, right at the spur of the moment. Why abolish the plot? That sounds too easy. And as for plot holes, I always just consider those 'Suspension of Disbelief' if it sounds like I could eventually come up with a reason or a red herring if there is no way in hell I can figure it out.
I like what the author is saying, but I'm not 100% sure if he's bringing anything new to the table. Some of these examples are really neat, and some details on the smaller elements are pretty enlightening. However, I think it'd serve us well if there was more liquidity, and if that's kind of vague than think back to economics class and you'll see what I mean.
It's kinda complicated, but hey, if it wasn't than it wouldn't be strong. You do a pretty good job at making it simple, so good on you!
"How long can men thrive between walls of brick, walking on asphalt pavements, breathing the fumes of coal and of oil, growing, working, dying, with hardly a thought of wind, and sky, and fields of grain, seeing only machine-made beauty, the mineral-like quality of life?"
- Charles A. Lindbergh, Reader's Digest, November 1939
Brovo is not feeding us new information, no... and liquidity is a key element for all RPs, which Brovo did cover but only slightly.
Liquidity it is. Y u no cover that?
~ Trolling mai self ever since the dawn of time. ~
^ Clicky? ^
Character generated covers weaving a plot without pre-established means. The plot occurs naturally via a series of actions from characters. The actions line up in a traceable, typically coherent pattern (though not always logical). Since a plot as defined by TVTropes is just a series of fictionalized events connected together, this means that a plot is inevitable but in no means necessary to think up in advance. It will occur naturally. Essentially: You can, but you don't need to create or plan a plot, generally.Originally Posted by Marrone
If the plot is in the way, or no longer relevant to player interests, it's perfectly fine to abolish it.
Suspension of Disbelief is definitely a factor in characters overpowering plot holes, certainly.
I'm not really bringing anything new to the table. I'm just seeing a whole pile of it being misunderstood and misconstrued, especially here in roleplay discussion, all the time. So I decided "here it is, a basic 101 on plot if you apply it to role playing." And done. I'll gladly answer specific questions or get into more complex ideas if that is desired, though I'd need time to sit down and really think on it to produce a good answer and not just "it works because I said it works." Also in the future, feel free to replace "author" with "Brovo."
I'm glad some of the details on smaller elements were enlightening--it was what I was aiming to do, was making something that looked huge and terrifyingly complex... Be actually comprised of a few simple details put together. Metaphorically speaking: Economics is scary if you drop all the learning material right in front of someone. If you dismember it into several smaller pieces, and then connect the pieces, it's far easier to understand, and thus learn.
Not entirely sure what you mean by liquidity. Flexibility is what comes to mind, which is an underlying concept of all plots in a role play. I address this without directly referencing it as a concept. Specifically I do it by explaining that plots when used in a role play tend to be generated after the fact by characters (series of actions, sequence of scenes, plot) and, optionally, with a flexible set of ideas that can be openly circumvented as "potential plans." A potential plan can be cancelled or avoided at any time should a player's actions cause it to become no longer viable as an option, and thus is quickly replaceable, thus giving a minimal hit to a role play's stability by directly accounting that one player's choice may make your future plans... Impossible.
The bolded anti-static plot message comes to mind as well. "Don't make plots that can't handle change! These are bad!
Simply: I didn't feel the need to directly describe it, because it was already underlying the thought process behind most of what was said. Potential plans = as it says on the tin. A player's actions may circumvent or invalidate a potential plan, which just means... Making another one with little to no impact on the story, thus having a flexible "plot."
Tada!... I think! If I interpreted your statement correctly because I will be genuinely honest when I say I have... No idea how liquidity has anything to do with role playing, except in namesake.
I never took an economics class. Of any kind. Unless general math counts... Pretty sure it doesn't.
Well shucks, thanks. Thanks for putting in the time to offer your opinion on it, I really do appreciate it.
...Again, I'm not... Really sure... How this business, economic, and investment practice has much to do with role playing. Care to explain?
Because liquidity is an economics theory. It's like comparing apples to a t-bone steak. I have utterly no frame of reference with which to understand the comparison, and to me, it makes about as much sense as comparing a slab of meat to something grown on a tree. If you mean flexibility, I did. It's the underlying message of the entire anti-static plots portion, mainly in that I don't tell you to do that. I leave you to figure that out. If static = bad, flexibility = good. Therefore, do flexibility. That was my aim, anyway. I can see it didn't completely succeed.
Oh WOW sorry man! Wikipedia failed me!
Alright, here's basic, no problem liquidity 101:
If money is in your wallet, it's very liquid. You can spend it right away.
(A player can make a change right away without asking a GM)
If money is in your bank account, well, you have to either write out a check (then you have to confirm it, etc, etc) or you'd have to drive up to the bank, maybe wait on long lines, or you'd have to go through the ATM machine and press a whole bunch of buttons-- basically, it's less liquid.
(Comperable to asking a GM to split off at any direction or whatever; basically a player can't take action in altering the plot without the permission of the GM)
I hope that helped. That's my bad, bro!! I didn't think Wikipedia was going to be so needlessly technical!
"How long can men thrive between walls of brick, walking on asphalt pavements, breathing the fumes of coal and of oil, growing, working, dying, with hardly a thought of wind, and sky, and fields of grain, seeing only machine-made beauty, the mineral-like quality of life?"
- Charles A. Lindbergh, Reader's Digest, November 1939
Ah. Thanks for the clarity.
A player making changes by themselves is fine and dandy... So long as it concerns themselves alone. The moment they draw other players into their scheme, or intend to change the story's direction, or any other number of things that involve potentially everyone else, it's just the polite thing to just... Ask everyone else (or really just those involved) how they feel about it. It'd be the equivalent of if you and four friends shared a bank account, and then you drained it dry, or changed the account type, or spent more than "your share", etc, without even at least letting your friends know in advance. It'd be chaotic and could potentially cause hurt feelings with one or more of your friends. Some people like that level of chaos. Most I've found... Don't. Plus as a GM I suppose you could say my views are coloured on the issue. I like knowing what my players are up to, what they plan to do, so that I can react appropriately instead of in surprise and shock.
Plus when multiple people in a role play come together to plan something, even if it's just a potential plan, they'll be far more likely to go through with it. It's more likely to actually occur because multiple people are striving towards that one event as opposed to several singular entities each stuck together, each going for something independent of one another and threatening the ability of the group to stick together due to divergent interests.
Another plus: When players work together, actively, it adds another layer of activity outside of just posting in the role play. Which helps give a player more incentive to stay. Because they've put... How many hours of work into it? They've spent... How much time talking with other players, planning and plotting away?
I hope this is clear enough a response.
Player interaction is an invaluable asset to roleplaying. *high fives Brovo*Another plus: When players work together, actively, it adds another layer of activity outside of just posting in the role play. Which helps give a player more incentive to stay. Because they've put... How many hours of work into it? They've spent... How much time talking with other players, planning and plotting away?
Thanks for the siggy Harby san. You definitely know my tastes.
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