Spam Talks Philosophy 2nd Edition

[Herzinth]

Previous Editions

The Measure Of A Moral Entity X

Todays Topic

So a comment in the last thread got me thinking. Specifically, about the curse of abortion threads, and of how they always dissolve into flamewars and imminent closure. So I started thinking of why. Clearly, there's the fact that it's a topical issue. But perhaps it's something more. Perhaps it's also due to the fact that it's such a topical issue, that each side is well entrenched in it's predetermined and foolproof arguments. Both sides stuck, unwilling to grant ground, and with no other option save for flaming, as everything as already been said. There isn't much new info one can bring to the table.

This is an attempt to change that. How? By looking at the basic abortion issue from a new angle. The angle of test tube babies, and the abortion of them. Now, I'm not sure if we're actually capable of creating a test tube baby from inception to "birth" completely artificially, but for the sake of this discussion, let's say we can. I'm hoping this provides new ground for both sides, Pro-Life and Pro-Choice. On one hand, the child isn't exactly natural, and on the other, it removes the dangerous birth and rape issues.

[Herzinth]

[TripMyHop]

Artificial wombs are the only real answer to this, imo. There are issues it will bring up for people but once it becomes widespread it will seem barbaric to submit women to the hell of pregnancy, and the huge risk of giving birth. They can even give injections to simulate the bonding effects from having given birth, to ensure the process goes naturally.

With artificial wombs, there would be less risk to both the child and the mother. The fetus could be monitored better, every aspect of gestation controlled, and no issue with premature labor. I think it will be seen as indispensable and people will wonder what we did before having that technology, once we can do it.

[HaloAssault]

It's 2am, so fuck philosophy, but this is a fantastic song.

[Herzinth]

It's 2am, so fuck philosophy, but this is a fantastic song.

'Twas not 2am 21 hours ago. It was 5am.
So not much better.
Damn you and your time zone

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Artificial wombs are the only real answer to this, imo. There are issues it will bring up for people but once it becomes widespread it will seem barbaric to submit women to the hell of pregnancy, and the huge risk of giving birth. They can even give injections to simulate the bonding effects from having given birth, to ensure the process goes naturally.

With artificial wombs, there would be less risk to both the child and the mother. The fetus could be monitored better, every aspect of gestation controlled, and no issue with premature labor. I think it will be seen as indispensable and people will wonder what we did before having that technology, once we can do it.

At the risk of sounding anal, I feel the need to point out that the threat is more about the morals behind aborting test tube babies/fetuses as opposed to the fantastic world of artificial wombs themselves.

But beside's that, yeah, this is basically my thoughts on it as well. It would also make it a hell of a lot easier for homosexual couples to have kids. Especially two males, as they wouldn't need to find a woman willing to bear someone else's child (which rarely turns out well).

[CidtheKid]

Okay, say we can grow babies in a test tube. They are no different than babies grown not in a test tube. At least, the end result won't be any different, I'd assume.

So, if they aren't different at all, why should we treat them differently, as far as defining personhood goes? I don't suppose there is an answer most people could agree on; personally, I'd say life starts as soon as the Embryo is formed, since thats when all the interesting stuff that decides what genes you get(and by extension, who you get to be), happens. However, since you won't know what hit you if die before you get your brains and organs in working order, I don't see a problem with ending life right then and there, so long as there is reason behind the decision. We already do plenty of killing for reasons.

(I mean, being able to grow a baby in a controlled environment means we can do so much stuff to figure out what happens, that we could definitely answer when stuff like the brain starts working and stuff, but that wouldn't make for interesting debate, I'd say.)

The reasons for aborting test tube babies are going to be much less than that of regular abortions, what with you needing to choose to have it, although I could see someone regretting the decision and backing out though. Harvesting for Stem Cells is another thing, although thats probably something more complicated to consider. I can't think of much else right now, I'm not particularly lucid at the moment.

[TripMyHop]

'Twas not 2am 21 hours ago. It was 5am.
So not much better.
Damn you and your time zone

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At the risk of sounding anal, I feel the need to point out that the threat is more about the morals behind aborting test tube babies/fetuses as opposed to the fantastic world of artificial wombs themselves.

But beside's that, yeah, this is basically my thoughts on it as well. It would also make it a hell of a lot easier for homosexual couples to have kids. Especially two males, as they wouldn't need to find a woman willing to bear someone else's child (which rarely turns out well).

Why the hell would you abort an embryo you went to the effort to produce via test tube? I don't get it.

[Herzinth]

Why the hell would you abort an embryo you went to the effort to produce via test tube? I don't get it.

The miracle of hypothetical situations.
I really don't know. This is the best I could come up with.

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Though I imagine it'd be quite a lot like when people actively decided to go for a romp without protection (as opposed to just forgetting it), getting pregnant, and then chickening out when the full realization of responsibility hits.

[Myyt]

Artificial wombs are the only real answer to this, imo. There are issues it will bring up for people but once it becomes widespread it will seem barbaric to submit women to the hell of pregnancy, and the huge risk of giving birth. They can even give injections to simulate the bonding effects from having given birth, to ensure the process goes naturally.

With artificial wombs, there would be less risk to both the child and the mother. The fetus could be monitored better, every aspect of gestation controlled, and no issue with premature labor. I think it will be seen as indispensable and people will wonder what we did before having that technology, once we can do it.

Seriously? Why don't we just hook ourselves up to capsules that inject us with necessary nutrients and calories then? Ever think that maybe a woman would WANT to go through the "hell" of pregnancy?

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And even if we create a HUMAN embryo, not a dog embryo not a pig embryo not a cow embryo, something which is always referred to as a HUMAN embryo which means that in essence, both sides of the argument are conceding that it is in fact HUMAN in some right which means that the cessation of said life would be considered the cessation of HUMAN life which would constitute murder in the most basic sense.

[Foxes]

Seriously? Why don't we just hook ourselves up to capsules that inject us with necessary nutrients and calories then? Ever think that maybe a woman would WANT to go through the "hell" of pregnancy?

No, actually. That's why we called bullshit on Serpentine being pregnant.

Also, Linkin Park is awful and you're both terrible people for listening to their shitty music.