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Thread: Literary (Please Examine And Critique Honestly And Politely)

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    Literary (Please Examine And Critique Honestly And Politely)

    The Following Is An Outline Of A Story I Am Busy Working Towards Finally Writing
    I've been attempting this literary premise for a long time. It consists of High Fantasy, in an alternate version of the real world. In this alternate world, an Evil Empress rules Rome. China, the Khmer Empire and India oppose her in the East. The Holy Roman Empire under the Carolingians (Or perhaps some other French Empire), Britain, Irelands and Scandinavia oppose her to the West, and she rules the entirety of Northern Africa, Southern Spain, Italy, Greece, Sarmatia and the whole of Asia Minor, and Parthia all the way from Iran to Pakistan.

    Alexander the Great has been ressurected, and has been a secretly disloyal retainer of Taria, the Dark Queen, for the past few decades. He is preparing to launch his coup in Pakistan, Afghanistan and perhaps Yemen to the East, and aid the Eastern Coalition against her Empire. To the West, a mythological figure, Merlin/Arthur in one character, named Aurelius, leads Britain and Ireland, together with druids, cooperating with Scandinavian Kingds and The King of the Holy Roman Empire, who may or may not be King Charlemagne, depending on what time period I decide to have this book I intend to write.

    The Pope is currently in Normandy, and actually there are more denominations than just the Catholic Church, since the West is too busy surviving or trying to against the Evil Roman Empire to care about "heresy". There is a vast coalition of people hoping to take down the evil Queen of Rome, Taria. They range from the mythological gods of Greece and Egypt, Scandinavia, the Celtic gods, both Continental and Irish, and the Celestial Bureacracy of the East(China) the Amatuskami of Japan, the Devas of India, and various others want Taria dead. Somehow she defies them all, and the secret in how she manages to do so is not yet known.

    IF it is the 900's in which the Coalitions of the world are fighting against Rome, then the technology will be much more advanced, possibly set in the 1500's or even 1600's. Though mythological and magical aspects figure into the world, so combat with swords/bows and arrows/magic, etcetera, figure prominently just as much as gun powder and cannons. This could be explained due to the fact that the world is desperate to be free from the Empress'es enormous armies of non-Humans and legionares.

    Somehow, the Dark Queen must be defeated.
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    Mega Lesbian Silux's Avatar
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    I actually love that setting, I would definitely read something set in that world.

    Let's start with a positive!
    I love the unique nature of the setting you have devised, it is not often you see a believable time-frame mixed with high fantasy elements in the way you have done here. It makes a historical-fantasy that is somehow beyond historical. You have brought in some historical characters that will, no doubt, in some way connect us to the story more so than it would have done without such individuals. It's fairly cleverly done because reimagined historical figures that you describe are part of most people's cultural heritage in some way or another - I am English so I grew up with the background story of Arthur / Merlin, so the inclusion of Aurelius is already drawing me in. I'm sure the same would apply to others.
    I suppose as a genre, Historical fantasy really plays on our expectations more so than the regular fantasy does, assuming that vanilla fantasy is an exploration of spiritual, emotional and ethical/moral paths and decisions that our unlikely hero takes. The bonus of this genre (and this setting) is that you are using civilisations that we think we know, and that we assume to know the outcome of, and you turn it upside down. I like it.

    Follow up with a question!
    How exactly does the high-fantasy element work with this? It sounds to me like a more mundane or dark fantasy rather than high. Maybe that is just to do with your synopsis so far, but magical elements do not seem to play a huge role in what you have provided us with, nor do any fantastic races such as elves or dwarves. I would reconsider looking at the exact sub-genre of fantasy this setting actually takes place in, and studying the common tropes for it's usage. You may find some things that may be mre beneficial to the telling of your story than just labelling it as 'high fantasy' because you think the type of setting demands magical action.

    Remember! Only use something because your story needs it! Not because you think the genre does!

    And finally, some critique
    Now, this is going to be subjective, so you'll have to forgive me.

    I always get a little bit of an itch when I hear the line: "The dark King/Queen/Emperor/Warlord has taken over Here/there/everywhere." It just seems too flat, too lacking in real characterised depth. I think this can link back to what I said before about the demands of a genre. Remember, you don't need to make this Dark Queen a Sauron clone who is utterly evil because you think that your story will not be seen as fantasy afterwards! Make sure if she is evil, she is evil for a god damn good reason, and not just 'because'.
    I think your readers will be more involved and emotionally conflicted if there was not such a blatant evil vs good struggle (especially seeing as history, generally, is never a morally black-white tale), and you should rather inject a good deal of moral ambiguity into this 'Dark Queen'. Give her real, human, understandable motives beyond mindless psychopathy or lust for power. Why do real people do things that would be perceived as evil by their peers?. If possible, do the same for Alexander the Great! Don't make him the standard hero who fights for "Justice because the weak cannot defend themselves blah-dy-blah-dy-blah.". Chances are we have all read something along those lines as before, and I know that as a a reader, I want to see something new and original. Maybe he has ulterior, darker motives for wanting this woman out of power? Maybe he wants to usurp her but hides this motive under a guise of just rebellion. Maybe the Queen could be the force of 'good' and Alex be the force of 'bad'. Make it something that extends far beyond face value and you could be onto something very cool indeed.


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    How exactly does the high-fantasy element work with this? It sounds to me like a more mundane or dark fantasy rather than high. Maybe that is just to do with your synopsis so far, but magical elements do not seem to play a huge role in what you have provided us with, nor do any fantastic races such as elves or dwarves. I would reconsider looking at the exact sub-genre of fantasy this setting actually takes place in, and studying the common tropes for it's usage. You may find some things that may be mre beneficial to the telling of your story than just labelling it as 'high fantasy' because you think the type of setting demands magical action.

    Remember! Only use something because your story needs it! Not because you think the genre does!
    Thank you for your polite, honest and at the same time constructive critique. Following posters, take note, this is how you can NICELY criticize someone's work.

    Okay , now as for the High-Fantasy Elements. . . in this story, there are sorcerers, particularily Far Eastern Sorcerers, mystical ninja, samura, etcetera, as well as British wizards, vampires, and other characters in the work. Wizards have been a part of folklore in England for a long time, as well as well as have druids in Ireland/British Isles. . . Celtic people's. In particular, Avalon, is a sort of headquarters for the Western creatures like Elves. Normandy is the state of the Papacy, with a French Pope, I haven't figured out his name in the story yet, if he'll be referenced, and I think maybe the new Vatican would be a good state to combat vampires, etcetera with.

    But you're right, stereotypical fantasy races like Elves and Dwarves might figure more prominently as the tale goes on, although I haven't fleshed out my setting enough, which you have pointed out.

    As far as the Dark Queen's evilness. . . she was a woman in the Old Roman Empire, centuries ago, I haven't decided if it's about 600 years ago back in 300 AD or even earlier. It's just after, maybe even before Constantine made Christianity legal. She outlaws religions other than her Imperial Cult or modifies freedom of religion and worship to only believe what she wants them to. As such most of the world is fighting to keep their religious beliefs. Her political opponents meet gruesome ends, and she likes to slaughter villages/towns, etcetera of conquered foes, now that she has a sizable base of loyal followers.

    Basically, Taria was a fierce Roman/Greek Sorceress from beyond the Pillars of Hercules centuries ago. Her kingdom was autonomous, and they were ruled by a mighty but noble King, her father. Well, her brother, Belisarius, betrayed her family when the King disappeared mysteriously. Belisarius managed to murder ten children, his brothers and sisters, with Taria being the only surviving heir to her Throne. Belisarius had managed to kill so many in the war and murder their gaurded relatives with Roman mercenary forces.

    Taria was like Boudica in that she kicked the Romans from the island, but unlike her in that she managed to conquer and subject the Roman Empire over the years following. Eventually all of Rome fell, and she kept some Roman customs, while destroying their freedoms in the process. A few Pagan Greek dissenters have come to the Coalition's side because of her literary and Imperial approved modification of Greek and Roman culture. She must be worshiped above all Gods, and worse than the historical persecuting Emperors of Rome, she must have sacrifices to commemorate her conquest OVER Rome, in particular.
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    Mega Lesbian Silux's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ActRaiser View Post
    Thank you for your polite, honest and at the same time constructive critique. Following posters, take note, this is how you can NICELY criticize someone's work.

    Okay , now as for the High-Fantasy Elements. . . in this story, there are sorcerers, particularily Far Eastern Sorcerers, mystical ninja, samura, etcetera, as well as British wizards, vampires, and other characters in the work. Wizards have been a part of folklore in England for a long time, as well as well as have druids in Ireland/British Isles. . . Celtic people's. In particular, Avalon, is a sort of headquarters for the Western creatures like Elves. Normandy is the state of the Papacy, with a French Pope, I haven't figured out his name in the story yet, if he'll be referenced, and I think maybe the new Vatican would be a good state to combat vampires, etcetera with.

    But you're right, stereotypical fantasy races like Elves and Dwarves might figure more prominently as the tale goes on, although I haven't fleshed out my setting enough, which you have pointed out.
    You're very welcome!

    Now, your follow up sent shivers down my spine because I think you may be onto something fairly unique with this Fantasy-History mashup.

    If I may offer a suggestion, I think you could really define this setting by making fantastical elements geographically tied to mythology! You could have court wizards native to the British, Mythical Samurai and Ninjas native to Japan. You could have traditional dragons wandering the mountains of China and Animal spirits roaming the Americas; Demons and supernatural creatures stalking the Scandinavian costs and forests! How chilling would it be to see mythology come to life in your world?
    Obviously this is your world, but I really think you could do something wonderful if you digressed from the standard fantasy model in a way, while still retaining all the things that make the genre so enjoyable.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Silux View Post
    You're very welcome!

    Now, your follow up sent shivers down my spine because I think you may be onto something fairly unique with this Fantasy-History mashup.

    If I may offer a suggestion, I think you could really define this setting by making fantastical elements geographically tied to mythology! You could have court wizards native to the British, Mythical Samurai and Ninjas native to Japan. You could have traditional dragons wandering the mountains of China and Animal spirits roaming the Americas; Demons and supernatural creatures stalking the Scandinavian costs and forests! How chilling would it be to see mythology come to life in your world?
    Obviously this is your world, but I really think you could do something wonderful if you digressed from the standard fantasy model in a way, while still retaining all the things that make the genre so enjoyable.
    That's what I intended to do! ^.^
    I'm taking the "Silent Hill" approach with mythology. Certain places in the world are gateways to the supernatural world, where there is layered reality. In the mundane world, magic exists, but it probably originates from the non-Mundane world. Inbetween the two worlds is a link between every world, where things mingle with eachother very well.
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    Mega Lesbian Silux's Avatar
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    Interesting, and i'm very glad to hear that you beat me to the concept

    So I assume this supernatural-world-link is going to have a connection to the empress and her power?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Silux View Post
    Interesting, and i'm very glad to hear that you beat me to the concept

    So I assume this supernatural-world-link is going to have a connection to the empress and her power?
    Hm. No. She's just unusually powerful. I was thinking that she might be a goddess of some sort. Maybe a daughter of Hera. I"m not sure.
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    She could of course be an actual character from mythology, and nobody quite realises until the end? It would be a hell of a climax to find out that she was Athena or something


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silux View Post
    She could of course be an actual character from mythology, and nobody quite realises until the end? It would be a hell of a climax to find out that she was Athena or something
    Hm. I probably wouldn't do that.
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    Haha, fair enough. Blame speculation


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