Did Christianity Ever Establish A Pope?

[ActRaiser]

Discussion seperated from the "What Pope would you vote for?" Thread. I don't believe the Pope is necessarily a Christian position supported by Biblical Doctrine. However, obviously the majority of Catholics would disagree.

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[Darth]

Matthew 16:17-19:

Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

This quote is interpreted by Catholics as Jesus making Simon the religious leader of Christianity, and the Pope is simply in a long line of successive "shepards of the flock" that started with Simon.

It can be interpreted in other ways, obviously, but this quote is the foundation for the Papacy.

[Kadaeux]

Matthew 16:17-19:

Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

This quote is interpreted by Catholics as Jesus making Simon the religious leader of Christianity, and the Pope is simply in a long line of successive "shepards of the flock" that started with Simon.

It can be interpreted in other ways, obviously, but this quote is the foundation for the Papacy.

Justification perhaps but history and common sense would suggest that the Papacy was also founded for the Church (and its massive influence in the middle ages) to have a united front to present to the Kings, Queens and Emperors as well as being the "final say" in what the correct doctrines are etc.


So regardless of whether the Bible supported the establishment of a Pope or not, the Church was a massive bureaucracy and did need such a figure at its head.

[Foster]

Meanwhile Lutheran-christianity pretty much ordained 'fuck da police' in a bad bohemian accent.

[Palamon]

Little side note here. Interestingly enough the earliest instance of a pun occurs right here in the bible. "you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church," The root word for Peter back then would have had the same meaning as rock,(Petre, Petra, Perte, other common forms) so yea haha, Jesus was a literary genius.

On the topic, when Jesus said this to Peter, he was most likely not trying to establish a bureaucratic system, but more a role for a spiritual guide. In almost any religion, western or eastern, it is common to find such people that would exist, the Dalai lama for instance. However it is easy to conclude that as western culture generally went through a decay in morality during the dark ages, so too did the meaning of what a pope was, and so we get to the then contemporary views of the Papacy (living more like a prince than a spiritual guide). This all leads us to the MODERN interpretation, which is pretty much an "end all be all" leader of the Catholic faith.

That's just my opinion though.

[Clirkus]

No.
And Christianity is very difference from Catholicism.

[KnightsTemplar]

" And on this rock I will build my church "-- Jesus' teaching is the ultimate foundation for our lives (7:24-27; compare 1 Cor 3:11), but here Peter functions as the foundation rock like the apostles and prophets in Ephesians 2:20-21. Jesus does not simply assign this role to Peter arbitrarily, however; Peter is the "rock" because in this context he is the one who confesses Jesus as the Christ (Mt 16:15-16). Others who share his proclamation also share his authority in building the church (18:18 with 16:19).

[Valcherion]

No.
And Christianity is very difference from Catholicism.

Eh, arguable. Considering how Protestant Christianity never really existed before the late medieval era [and the institution of 'the papacy' was well around before then, in both the form of the papacy in Rome and the ecumenical leader or however it's called in Anatolia for the Greek Orthodox], then, no, Christianity is not much different from Catholicism at the time frame in question, because Catholicism was Christianity up to a certain point in time. C:

[Clirkus]

Eh, arguable. Considering how Protestant Christianity never really existed before the late medieval era [and the institution of 'the papacy' was well around before then, in both the form of the papacy in Rome and the ecumenical leader or however it's called in Anatolia for the Greek Orthodox], then, no, Christianity is not much different from Catholicism at the time frame in question, because Catholicism was Christianity up to a certain point in time. C:

It is now past that point.
They are two different entities.

[Valcherion]

It is now past that point.
They are two different entities.

I like to think Catholicism falls under the umbrella of Christianity, if you don't mind.

Now, in regards to the question - I'd think that, due to its nature, the question is directed at the period before the split... So even then, Christianity was one community, albeit with different sections, shall we say. So, again, with respect to the question, they're not.