Melee weapons and their clichés

[Griffith]

Oh and spears. I mean, some people say they are recruit characters, and then they come up with a two hander sword... Recruits probably won't be able to use the thing at a good effect and it makes their morale drop if they stand exposed and stuff. Recruits should use spears becuz they are easy to learn how to use and a shield.

[Lord DragonFly of Dawn]

If we are talking about polearms...

A polearm like a glaive are just about the most useful weapon you can have, if your character is very well trained. A polearm builds up a lot of momentum so it is very powerful, and because the handle is so long one can use the whole of their body to control and direct the weapon. one can also use both ends of the weapon in your attack and defense, towards the end of it's popularity is real combat the butt of the pole was often sheathed in iron or steel to be used to catch and deflect the other combatants weapon.

If your character uses a pole arm it is important to remember that using only your arms to control the weapon drastically limits the flexability of the weapon. Use your whole body and you'll live longer and put less stress on your arms so you can keep fighting longer.

[MultiversalInk]

I like glaives ^^

So.. what about scythes?

[Azarthes]

About Scythes.

The Scythe is a farming tool, it is used to cut wheat out of wheat fields or mow a lawn. It was not developed into a functional weapon until used by Japanesse Rebels (When China took over Japan and banned all traditional fighting practice) who trained with it by saying that it was a dance.

The Scythe is usually formed into a 'S' shaped wooden staff about 170 Centimeters (6 ft) long. The Scythe has two handles coming out at 90 degree angles. The first of the handle is near the top of the staff (you hold the blade near your feet usually) and the second one is near the middle of the staff. The blade usually points out left and is about 60-90 cm long (24-35 inches).

As a weapon, I would say its pretty useless. I say that because it only has few moves it can properly do. These moves are a horizontal slashes, and/or down ward strikes. Now, the slashes have a huge flaw as well, while slashing if you hit something soft you have a huge chance of the blade getting stuck, killing your lower guard to nothing. The other flaw about the Scythe is that the blade sticks out so damn far, it is easy for a adversary to get into your guard making it nearly impossible to retract your guard.

The advantage is that it can get into spaces (like kill holes) were 90 degree attacks are highly needed, that is its only advantage. It is a worthless insufficient weapon that builds momentum to quickly to be stopped, it cannot kill groups on people sufficiently unless by some miracle you slice through the neck so quickly that it rips from the staff end. It only have one advantage, with two many disadvantages and needs a controlling hand to kill more enemies then allies.

[Havoc]

As a weapon, I would say its pretty useless.

Zasalamel begs to differ...

/joke

Anyway, awesome thread. I especially loved the armor part because few people seem to grasp the concept that it won't always keep you 100% intact.

[Xmagus]

About the scythe as a weapon, it may not the most practical weapon but it can be quite effective depending on the actual specifications. I would imagine its best use would be as a cutting tool, damaging more on the pull back than on the initial strike (a slight comparison with a falx). Though admittedly at standard length they would be very unwieldy and dangerous.

[TolarianDrake]

Not to argue any points, as most you brought up were infact good.

I use swords quite often, not an LARP but more of a collector and trainer.

I have no opinions on axes other than, one handed, two handed, one sided, two sided, they are short and quick, big deal. my sword can hit you much further away. But anyway;

Short swords are fast, lightweight but require skill and precision.. More or less, if you are an expert swordsman, fighting another individual who never has, or brought a knife to a swordfight.. these aren't as good. They usually wont stand up to a big sword after one hit, due to the sheer impact. However, dual wielding brings an interesting thing to this, the abilty to angle block and still have a free arm for an attack. Once again, before trying any of this make sure you are aware of the risk!

The thing I dislike in short swords, as aforementioned is the low ability to take an actual hit. A greatsword, don't worry about the ground thing, that's irrelevent. the ground is there whether you have a knife, a rifle.. a jet fighter.. ignore that. Big swords have two things that make them amazing. Good reach, and.. above all, impact. If you use a sword correctly, you wont get tired after ten swings.. remember, people who use them to use them, build up endurance.. just like people who work in jobs that require heavy lifting.. you get used to it after a while.

Reach, I can hit you before you hit me. Big swords do not work well coming from above.. due to them being bulky. Don't get your sword stuck in the mud right? Weight is a concern when using a sword in an upright position. Big swords are slashers.. You spin with big swords.. don't jab or thrust.. you home run swing big swords, they have their best effect as swingers.. you get that added reach due to your arms being extended. In close quarters, the sword can be an effective tool as well, due to the fact many times it can double as a pole arm.. remember the blade isn't the only part of a sword.. handles can hurt pretty bad too. Two handers though, as aforementioned have their biggest advantage at range. Don't look at video games, look at history. You don't rush at a guy with a short sword, you play.. you play until the other makes the mistake. The mistake could be they do wear out due to overuse and not pacing themselves.. or hesitating allowing you to get in close.. but you don't rush right in or you might be holding your guts in your hand.

The second thing a big sword has is impact. Try this, get a big friend, someone with muscle.. you hold a piece of metal (not sharp for safety) about 5ft in length (total) and he does the same. Have him hit that piece of metal from the side as hard as he can. If you did block it, the recoil you would feel would give him ample time to follow up with a reverse swipe. They hit big... and hard.

My favorite though, the perfect balance.. is the bastard sword. the hand and a half boys.more impact than a short, lighter than a long.. (depending on who your opponent is though) They are light enough to use the.. oh what was it, in kingdom of heaven he used the italian word for it. something falcon. But an over the head stance, allowing you to block to the sides and above. it allows for slashing, and grip hitting up close. Forget jabbing unless you are in a crowd (as bodies tend to slow the blade) People don't usually thrust with their swords.

So again, if you go into battle swinging madly.. you will get tired with a shortsword. It isn't a video game so jumping and dodging like crazy isn't an option.. the object of swordfighting is to keep your enemy away until he/she makes a mistake. like thrusting in any way, instant death. or trying to slash when their sword can reach you.. play keep away, stay focused and keep eye contact, won't matter what you use as long as you can hit him before he hits you.

With polearms, big polearms work similar to big swords, though they do have a better option when thrusting due to their huge reach. But after one swipe or thrust you're spent. you either made it or didn't just due to sheer size. having to get your balance after that big of a move would give someone who just dodged that potentially fatal blow a good chance of delivering one in kind.

Scythes.. too top heavy.. stay with wheat.

[VarockSvent]

Double axe, similar reason you have a double edged sword, back swing. Also, many lumber jacks used a double edged axe for when one edge got too dull, just flip it over. Its also a matter of balance, though usualy they had a much longer heft than the traditional barbarian axe and have a much smaller head.

Scythe, though not very affective in combat, when it did hit, was incredibly deadly. Though, what your thinking of is the european scythe. The japanese "scythe" was either a hand-scythe or sickle sort of thing, like a kama, or the straight staff sort of thing with a small blade as you describe but with a shorter blade, less than a foot. "Ninjas" peasants used whatever they had. They fought heavily armored and well trained opponents, the scythe proved quite good choice in that way.

[Lord DragonFly of Dawn]

@TolarianDrake As a trainer what do you feel on short sword/long sword dual wielding? I've heard all sorts of conflicting opinons on it, ranging from "unstopable[sic] killing lmao1010101101[sic]" to "invitation to death, honestly" with very little supporting evidence and no first hand experience...

[DancerVeiled]

Mh, I don't see many of these really being as crippling as they are portrayed here, although cliche is certain. Melee weapons, like ranged weapons, are fairly simple in implementation and as always, silly people lead to silly styles. Granted, improvisation is the heart of innovation.

Double headed axes have obvious merits, allowing one to go into battle with two sharpened axe blades without carrying two axes, not to mention the fact that it served to balance the center of mass of the axe head. As axes rely on radial swings and momentum conservation, in addition to the way the weapon focuses most of its mass toward its striking end, this is a common innovation. Don't believe me? Go pick up a woodcutting axe, and rotate it.

Scythes were one of the most common peasant weapons, and among the best. If you were a peasant, you were probably a farmer, or at least assisted with the harvest, and you likely owned a scythe. Granted, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread, the scythe is a notoriously difficult weapon to use in battle. However, try removing the scythe blade, altering the haft, and reattaching it parallell to the shaft. Congratulations! You have created a military scythe, which can be used as a glaive or spear. The S-shaped handle not working for you? Cut it in half, and you have a scimitar-like single-edged sword. Congratulations! You have created a shortened military scythe.

Personally though, I've always preferred spears. Spears are among the first melee weapon ever created, and remain in use to this day. They are simple, easy to build or improvise, and grossly effective agaisnt armored and unarmored opponents alike.