and this goes back to my problem earlier, the Ancients are strong enough to fight the Demon Lords if they take them, 2-1, except for some of the more powerful ones like AncientSphinxmon and AncientGarurumon
by making our guys stronger than the Ancients, we diminish the threat that is the Demon Lords. I actually NEVER had plans for making Beelzemon stronger than an Ancient, hell, i didn't even plan for my new guy to become stronger than the Ancients without help from them. This is my main problem with what's happened, the Demon Lords pose less and less a threat with each new level of power our guys gain, i don't mind them gaining that power shortly before the final showdown with the Demon Lords. Our guys shouldn't get the power to beat them before they fight them, so as to maintain the fact that the Demon Lords are a geniune threat. Like in Digimon Next, nobody can beat Barbamon/Yggdrasil until VictoryGreymon shows up, but no-one knows that VictoryGreymon can one-shot him until he does, so all the way up until the moment Barbamon was one-shotted, he was a genuine threat.
look at ALL of the Digimon series, or any anime series similar to it, there is a geniune threat posed by the bad guys, like in Dragonball, Cell was a geniune threat because, during the Cell Games, his perfect form was stronger than Goku and Vegeta, currently the two biggest bad-ass-kickers, and this point was emphisized thoroughly, Gohan didn't get the power to beat him until during the final battle with him, but Goku knew that Gohan could beat Cell and shows that he wasn't worried about the battle, but the viewer didn't know that Gohan could do it for sure. Bleach shows this with the final battle with Aizen, he was a genuine threat because we saw him take apart all of the captains like they were nothing, and Ichigo doesn't get the power to beat him until moments before the final battle.
1. And they are strong enough to do that. The Ancients are very strong as a group, but they don't need to be ridiculously powerful. And AncientSphinxmon and AncientGarurumon are still as strong as the others are.
2. How does it diminish the threat? The Demon Lords were much more limited back then, since Daemon and Lucemon would still have been Angelic to a degree and not had their power boosts and further forms, and the same rough deal with Leviamon apart from the further form. See my other post for how the Demon Lords can still be a threat even with powerscaling.
3. Again, a lot of this comes from this RP being rushed. It's not necessarily your fault, we all chipped in with this in some way or another, but when you moan about the bad guys being non-credible after having no problem going straight through to the final battle at a pretty incredible speed pacing-wise, it makes this stuff difficult to do properly. If we had more time, we could have had more fights with the defector Knights before they turned. We could have fought the Sanctum Knights before we all started taking critical levels in badass, show them as an actual threat. If we had more battles, we could have slotted one in before the final battle as the proper climax of sorts before the final battle served to wrap shit up. Don't bitch at us for it, because it isn't our fault. It's nobody's fault in particular, you just take heat for it by taking particular exception and bitching about it. And I do seem to recall trying to even the field with the Orci and having Parasimon stick it to Examon when he came back, so...
1. fuck you, the setup was not my fault. i always asked "Are we done here?" "Can we move on, or does someone else have something to do?" "does anyone mind if we move ahead?" and no-one ever raised an objection until afterwords. we were all to blame for that.
2. When did i say that the Sovereigns were in line with the Knights, if you remember, i am constantly complaining that it is what you are trying to do.
3. again, i wanted the Demon Lords to be... well Demon Lords, lords of hell itself, Imperieldramon PM wouldn't last 5 seconds in a fight against Lilithmon or Leviamon or any of the others. and as i have already pointed out, Yggdrasil and the Knights have gone rogue, they are not listening to the Sovereigns, so the Sovereigns are removing them before they do something stupid and impede their plans, like... oh i don't know... say, by removing the Digidestined from the picture by severing the link to their Digimon.
4a) The Demon Lords have other ways of escaping the Dark Realm, think of it like Judgement Day from Terminator, there is no stopping it, you can delay it, but it is an event that cannot be avoided, their return is inevitable, so the Sovereigns are trying to make themselves as ready as possible before they do break free.
4b) i thought we agreed that Huanglongmon is currently asleep, feeding his powers to the Ancients to help restore them to fighting form.
1. That's not the setup I'm talking about. That part is mostly a shared responsibility, since none of us really knew what the fuck we were doing for a while, but I was talking about the setup with the Ancients and Sovereigns. I do admit that part of this is my fault with how powerful I ended up convincing people to make the Sovereigns, but that was under the distinct impression that they were asleep or sealed, and would get revived by Infinimon as super-duper endgame bosses. The setup for the Sovereigns and Ancients isn't entirely your fault, but you're the one who put it together regardless of the problems that other stuff raised, so you get the short end of the stick. It would help if you actually had discussed this shit with us and got it sorted out at a non-clusterfucky value, but I guess that's what we're doing now.
2. You said it back when you put up the plan for the beginning of the Digital World and in the resulting argument/whatever we had. I'm fairly certain that that isn't the case, for obvious reasons, but I can't be all that sure, and it ties into the two main options for interpreting this shit. Even if they aren't allied with the Sovereigns, but are still not evil, wouldn't it just be a matter of the Sovereigns approaching them diplomatically and convincing them to not go postal on the Tamers to sort crap out? If the Knights are stubborn assholes (regardless of whether they're evil or not), that at least provides something of a reason: They'll give the Tamers the opportunity to become stronger, the ones who aren't stubborn assholes will either survive due to coming to an understanding with the Tamers or defecting, and whilst it's a tough, morally grey decision, it works out in the end.
3. And that doesn't work as well as you think it would. Leviamon, Daemon and Lucemon would make a meal out of Imperialdramon PM at their strongest, but any others would get raped. Anything less they could deal with, and they can always become Ogudomon to get around it, but Imperialdramon PM is going to be an unattainable barrier for them otherwise. And that excuse of them going rogue and the Sovereigns not getting directly involved due to their stupidity would actually work, tbh. The Tamers can handle them, and if the Knights are stupid enough to do what they're doing, this will be a nice wake-up call for them. Anything else could be covered by the points in (2.) and them going rogue could tie into the pact.
4a. Even if it is an inevitability, they can hold the front long enough to get some nice shots in at them whilst they're locked down there. Think of it like having a load of super-strong zombies in a huge room where there's only one very small door to get out. Even if barricading the door won't neccessarily work, keep guard at the door, maintain the barricade, and start mowing as many zombies down as you can, when you can. In the meantime, do train other people to deal with them. Just have an involvement yourselves.
4b. We did, but that situation can be reversed if the Ancients all return the power they borrowed. It'd be like the Ancients all fusing into Susanoomon, only less taxing and more efficient.
my reason is marginally concrete, in Pokemon, you can't turn your Magicarp into a Gyarados by only using your level 100 Charizard. I will admit, If we go with the Pact, we eliminate all but 2 problems, Zhuqiaomon and Baihumon, the pact is now broken to shit, so why are Ebonwumon and Azulongmon doing nothing?
Baihumon can be handwaved because he hasn't done much except for walk around and make a power donation, which is covered by a loophole. Not sure about Zhuq, but that just leaves us with one problem as opposed to a veritable glut of them that we might have with other methods.
Originally Posted by Psyker Landshark
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