***Clarification on an a family history bit I mentioned***

Having scanned it over I feel like I may of ran over a detail too quickly. I am not in bad terms with my parents or anything and my Mom and I have made peace since the days we argued daily. However, I never got much a chance to grow too closer with either, somewhat with my dad because we at least home some of the time, but my Mom was always someone I argued with. But there is not any kind of abusive or cruel relationship between us. My relationship between me and my parents are more neutral, I can get along with them, but I can also get by without them (emotionally, I wouldn't say I could do so financially yet).

[quote=Brovo]@Gwazi: At work so can't make a long post, but if you seriously think an extreme hatred of all religion indiscriminately isn't blatantly unhealthy... Then you really are beyond learning anything. Hatred breeds nothing but more hatred. Nobody wins, and everyone suffers until they are utterly consumed by it. It also overpowers rational thought.

Also, apparently my being extremely blunt with you presuming you would be mature enough to take it was a bit unfounded when you then state, boldly, that I lied to you... Somehow[/quote]

I've highlighted several times how I've learn many things through such debates, it's just that you do not find me agreeing with you on the topic of Religion. Also almost every famous atheist and/or scientist share's this stance in one form or another, may it be Thunderf00t, Richard Dawkins, Bill Nye, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Carl Sagan, Christopher Hitchens etc. If it was another example that has not been culturally accepted such as belief in a teapot orbiting the earth, or adults going to church to worship the tooth fairy and such belief's has led to people being cruel to one another, starting genocides, the end of relationships, children removed from their homes, children being cut off from any education consisting of science, you would still be disagreeing with me like this?

It's not even the people of the Religion I hate, it's the system of Religion that has been used to destroy minds, gather people to commit terrible acts against one another, and has held back scientific advancement for a long time. I understand how hatred is a terrible thing to be feeling towards something, but it would be pretty impossible not to hold hatred towards a system like that once you really look at it in that sense.

Also your bluntness is fine, I can take bluntness. I prefer bluntness, but simply being blunt alone will not convince me. And what I said was there some things you simply were not being 100% blunt/honest on your opinions until now. Looking at the PM's you've said stuff such as:

"Gwazi is here to reinforce his own sense of belief by attempting to tear down the beliefs of others and start fights"

"Except he doesn't learn"

Which was stuff you never said outright to me, either having held it back completely or said it in a gentle way (which you admit was your approach on steam) so it wasn't obvious (which is why I prefer bluntness. Your honest opinion is shown without question and at risk of confusion or misinterpretation. It wasn't that you lied you to me, it was that there things on your mind in regards to this topic towards me that you didn't say, and had to revealed through the PM's.

But to be fair, even in debate's we tend not go into personal evaluations of people unless if it's asked. But it is kind of unfair in reflection to say you are not being 100% open on your thoughts in me and I myself haven't put my whole thought's in the table either (Not out of gentleness, just lack of relevancy) but to describe my thoughts bluntly on you and your position here, if for nothing more than to be fair and be on a better understanding with one another:

I find you be a very logical and rational person, one who is not afraid to call out bullshit when you see it and argue your points fiercely but calmly to defend your point and I highly respect and admire that. In most issues I tend to find myself in close to 100% agreed with you. However, in the topic of Religion although I see this same thing going on I think having grown up around religious people, people who are good and decent people who happen to be religious, you have become a bit afraid/reluctant of fully criticizing and being at odd's with it.

I really can't go any deeper than that because personally, I don't know you well enough to go any further with such claims. Even the last part is iffy and I'm pretty sure is wrong or misinterpreted. 

I would prefer though we find a way to make whatever hostility that seems to be between us over this topic to be found, exposed, and stopped. I'm fine if that doesn't happen and we end up going our separate ways not getting along with one another. I'm more than used to that result with people in things, and I've built of enough tolerance that one more person isn't going to effect me. But I'd rather we not get to this point, it would be a shame and a waste if this allows us to become at odds with one another when we agree and get along in almost every other topic. 

I do honestly want to be proven wrong wherever I debate a stance/opinion of mine, doing so means I've learned something new and have a chance to grow. But I just haven't ran into the right argument, or proof yet to convince me otherwise. Something that shows Religion does provide good, a good at can be enjoyed without bringing in all the bad, a good that Religion doesn't preach to be only from them. Now if this is shown, I'd still walk away an atheist like you, unable to believe in something without the proof for it to exist, but if I can be shown that Religion (or at least) some of it, can provide something of value to people without claiming to be the sole provider of it, and without carrying the bad baggage Religion also holds I will step down from my earlier argument.