[quote=Imperfectionist]As for unhealthy and counter-productive, what kind of health are we talking?[/quote] Mental Health mainly. Physical health technically counts for those who choose to avoid vaccinations or medical treatment for religious reasons. But since that's mainly just extremists, we'll leave it out for the sake of referring to the more casual religious person. [quote=Imperfectionist]And the same for counter-productive. What would be produced that being part of a religious community stifles (and please don't say science, you know as well as I that there are a multitude of religious scientists in all fields).[/quote] Except science is the big one, just because some religious people are scientists doesn't dismiss it. The idea of science is to find the truth, and draw conclusions based on the proof and evidence given. Religion bases itself on already having the answer despite proof and evidence, direct conflict of system and interests. A person can subscribe to a religion and still be a scientist, but that Religion is still promoting a type of reasoning and thinking that is not good for a scientific community. The most universal criticism is basically that. If we start delving into specific religions mind you the options open such as self-confidence. Putting yourself down as an evil sinner and that someone is infinitely better than you. Compassion/Empathy if you follow scriptures such as women must know their place, homosexuality is a sin, black or Jewish people are inferior etc. [b]Note:[/b] Btw, the Jewish one does really puzzle me. All the time you see Christian groups attack Jewish people as this evil group of people, I even had a friend from school whose Jewish who had experiences of having to hide he was Jewish when around church goers to avoid discrimination. Now, Religion being hateful? Nothing new, why does this puzzle me? Because if you bother looking at the Bible Jewish people are meant to be Gods chosen people. What the hell is it that makes so many people turn around and condemn the very people that God said were the best? [quote=Imperfectionist]As a corollary, I would really like it if you could prove that it was absolutely the religious practice itself that causes people to be "counter-productive", and not other factors that are ascribed to religion.[/quote] Weather it's directly Religion or other factor's that Religion pushes doesn't really matter. If all the positives from Religion are either circumstantial (ex: Hope) or gained elsewhere (ex: Morals), and the rest is either being used to weaponize negatives (ex: Homophobia, Racism, Anti-Medicine), or simply reinforce bad practices (Ex: Except something as fact with no evidence or proof, rather than use evidence and proof to find the fact) it's not exactly something that can simply be highlighted as something good. I already grant that benefits are from Religion, that it's not 100% flawed or wrong. But there are enough negatives attached to it, that I personally don't agree with the system nor see it worthwhile. Especially when there is no benefit that only Religion is capable of providing.