[quote=So Boerd] That's like using the Bible to prove God. By the way, on the topic of founding documents,"...that [all men] are endowed by their with certain inalienable rights" [/quote] Except no. You asked for evidence of human rights, I gave you one. If you tried to murder me, you would be punished for violating my human right to live. Humans made human rights. If you're talking about some sort of higher, indomitable "collective" of human rights that some sky daddy made, no, of course there aren't any. If you murder me, the universe isn't going to suddenly strike you down with the hammer of the flying spaghetti monster, you could legitimately get away with it. As for "human rights" in the sense of morality: Empathy, sympathy, and our being social animals, in combination with an ever evolving society that grows more and more complex, requires a more advanced set of laws and guidelines by which to live our lives, which includes human rights. This is pretty simple shit mate. As for that document, that [all men] are endowed by their creator, you'll note they didn't say God. Or a Goddess. Or even a deity. You can construe creator to mean all sorts of things and that was the intent of it. If you believe your creator was your parents, it still works. If you believe your creator was the Judeo-Christian God, then it still works. That is the purpose of that document. Plus I'm not saying the document is perfect, I'm not saying that the things on it are without flaw, and I'm not saying it's a universal truth. I'm also not using it to prove that there is an invisible sky daddy watching over us all that you can't ever see, hear, or touch: I'm using it to prove that there are human rights which we created. Because if you murder me in front of the police, they'll arrest your ass. [i]For violating my human rights[/i].