Famotill said
Okay, so I'm just going to post some of the limitations I presented to Yog, and see if they make sense to him and everyone else, so we can work this out before it even becomes a problem:">This is one power that I think could be upgraded later, but you say that Jack can melt metal. This is of course certainly possible, but metal is a huge heat conductor. When it absorbs heat it immediately disperses the heat throughout. This would mean that Jack would have to apply his heat to small areas holding it there so as the area may reach it's ignition temperature. This along with surface area and exposure to air is why pots on a stove don't burn when you're cooking. A pot alone can handle at least over temperatures of 375 degrees Fahrenheit (190 Celsius) as this is the lowest average temperature of a stove on high. In order for Jack to even soften steel, a metal used commonly in architecture, he'd be using temperatures of around 1000 degrees Fahrenheit (538 Celsius), and to melt it would be a whopping 2,500 degrees Fahrenheit. I think that for now, Jack's flames should be at a much lower range, 450 would be your best bet as around this point their would be combustion from the oil he uses. While this wouldn't allow him to melt down metal with ease, it would allow for growth and potential, and would end realistically without people getting injured. >Another thing you mention is Jack's ability to poison others if the oil gets in their bloodstream. You didn't really specify how this poison works, so I did a bit of research. Typically, yes oils are pretty hazardous, and can even cause death in the most severe cases, which would probably mean that Jack is intentionally trying to actively poison people, a deed that could also harm his teammates. However, it's much more common for oil to cause digestive problems like diarrhea or other issues like irritation, nausea, and vomiting. Also, I'm not sure how the oil get's into the body, unless actively ingested. Does it perform osmosis, or do you just mean the burning of the oil getting into the lungs? With either case, it'd be a risk to allies and civilians I propose that this move be for the most part cut. Sure if someone eats the oil, then the effects would make sense but inhaling the oil would only do meaningful damage if the exposure time was over a long period, and even then simply removing oneself from the polluted area would result in improved lung functions. > He definitely needs more weaknesses. For one, while water definitely does make oil fires roar, it does eventually sizzle them out, so a huge weakness for Jack has to be water. Ice is a bit different, as it can be melted into a non-manipulative state if the user can't also control water. Smothering Jack's flames would also be a means of stopping his fire, without oxygen Jack's powers simply cannot work, because combustion requires it. Of course like all other members of the team, Jack's powers would be restrained by anti-titan gear which temporarily deactivates the titan gene. Overall I think adding these in would balance out the character, as having fire powers already makes him one of the strongest on the team.

I hope this applies to other people as well because Linn controlling ice can become extremely powerful, seriously just research iceman from the x-men and you'll see what I'm saying, the same can go for Nathan as well, a lot of our characters have the potential to be incredible strong.

Everyone has the potential to become very powerful. Press could control an entire army of robots, Cora could turn her body into pure shadow and move at the speed of sound or something, etc, etc. All of this is just in theory, of course.

Yes, it applies to everyone. A few people actually have had to make changes to their character, and one was even scrapped entirely. Trust me I have no intention to limit your RPing in any way. I simply want to keep a fair environment with which to do so. While I hesitate to call any of these characters weak, I intentionally asked for their powers to be toned down, remember these titans before this had very little training except for the rare exception. Sanctum is a military organization dedicated to using titan heroes. With that said, I'm not saying that Jack or anyone at all won't eventually be as powerful as originally intended, but I ask that these powers be developed throughout the story. If these characters didn't need training, why would they even have joined Sanctum. But to anyone who has doubts, please believe me when I say that I am not trying to make your characters weaker. In developing these characters through the story in fact, they should become stronger not only as titans but as people, and characters.

Also, I'd like to mention that it's my b-day today. Jesus, I feel old.

Oh awesome, Happy Birthday Scar, mine is actually next Thursday!

On the Nathan problem, yes he does have the potential to become extremely powerful. However that power is tempered with drugs and the notion that his powers are highly destructive, unlike Nathans "nemesis" that will hopefully appear later in the rp. His powers are unfocused, like rage itself there isn't a sole thing that he can focus it on which makes most of his more powerful abilities more AoE than single target battles.

Plus the expenditure of said power causes massive bodily harm and will eventually kill him if he doesn't control it.

Yog Sothoth said
yeah, if he can create burning oil, why wouldn't he be able to create fire as well, it would make sense

That actually doesn't necessarily follow, logically. I was under the impression that his power was the secretion of a flammable oil. While I can see your brilliant association of "oil" and "fire" they aren't actually the same thing, so you're giving your character two powers.

Yog Sothoth said
I hope this applies to other people as well because Linn controlling ice can become extremely powerful, seriously just research iceman from the x-men and you'll see what I'm saying, the same can go for Nathan as well, a lot of our characters have the potential to be incredible strong.

Dude.... pot calling kettle black. You are, far and away, the absolute worst offender for an OP character in this RP. One of the worst I've ever seen. Your character's power isn't necessarily OP in and of itself, it's just that every time anyone says anything about how they might fight your character you seem to think that you always have a solution, even if you have to make up new powers or remove weaknesses. You can't just say "Yeah, I guess your character could get one over on mine, let's hope they never fight!" You always have to be "Um, no, actually, Jack's power makes him better because of X." You're refusing to accept that Jack's power doesn't win every time.
Not once has anyone said something about a hypothetical fight, and you just left it or conceded that your character would come off worse. Every time you had to argue about how Jake would win.
If your character's like that... well he's an asshole, but what the fuck ever, but you don't need to do it here in OOC as well.

Let's not get too worked up about it Gisk, that's why we're talking about it now, to avoid these problems.

MOST IMPORTANT THING I WILL SAY ALL DAY : HAPPY BIRTHDAY SCARIFAR!

Less important things: I'm going to agree that Jack's powers need some tempering, and some of the issue is from an OOG perspective. It is cool to have a stubborn character IG, but changes to the CS, backtracking on what has been already written, and other things said in the OOC are rubbing us the wrong way.

For example. In your CS it stated a weakness to cold environments. When it became applicable IG, or as soon as you realized there was an icy-character, you immediately recanted that weakness. I'm not sure why a cold environment would affect your character MORE than a DIRECT cold blast. And how cold are we talking, fridge? antarctic? so your character has no weakness outside of the arctic circle? I feel like the vagueness in the CS has been used as a sort of OOC dodge. It woudl be one thing if it was a completely IG trait like your character has to feel like his is invincible and will not admit weakness... I think Yog, should consider embracing weaknesses rather than avoiding them. It makes for a more dynamic well rounded character and game. No one should be able to floor the whole team, everyone should have someone they can beat, and someone they can't beat, it makes for a better group dynamic overall, better writing, a better game. Everyone wins when anyone can loose. If that makes sense.

I think being specific about the temp is important to science. Just so if there is a question we can always look up "X material melts at X temp" or whatever. There are a few things to examine. Why don't his cloths catch on fire? If the oil does not burn then it has to go somewhere, so if he doesn't burn it, like what happened IG, that oil is all over the floor now... because he was secreting... Also, bullets explode at high temperatures because they contain gunpowder. If he covers his whole body in the stuff he needs to think about that if he is carrying a shotgun.

I am adverse to adding a power before we have finished the first mission. As Fam said, we are all training and underdeveloped characters. Linn is not like the character refereed to. We are all supposed to be like level 1. We will get to those other levels but there is no need to add stuff before we have even started. So no need to add powers now, especially when the first power is plenty strong.

I'm gonna add some equipment to Nathans CS.

On a note about fire vs water. I think cold is a better weakness than water to his power. You should not put water on a grease fire because it spreads, oil and water don't mix and the oil rises to the surface and continues to burn. However an extinguisher, which is an icy-blast, puts out grease fires just fine.

Yeah haha I actually originally knew that, but then I watched a video and did some reading about putting grease fires out with water, but I must've misread something because I can't find the article anymore or at least what I thought I read, At any rate water could still be a potential weakness in that it would probably make his powers much harder to control and less predictable.

I agree with Eyris you said in your CS's weaknesses 'extremely cold Enviorments' that's kinda vague so I thought that if you had a little oil produced than a little ice (ice that gets VERY cold) would be fine.

It was very disrespectful I believe for you just to completely disregard my characters actions and literally push her to the side and keep going.

Actually, bullets don't explode at high temperatures. I know, counter intuitive. Mythbusters tested it.

Hey, on that note: Are our characters equipped with guns when in the field?

Yeah that is true. The fire set would certainly be out of his control. And perhaps more dangerous... contaminating the water source and such might be a factor.

@Sara: I'm sorry that you felt that way, as I'm sure Yog is, and if there is a situation where anybody at all feels disrespected please come to me, even if it was me who you feel disrespected you and I will try my best to resolve the issue.

@Gisk: It varies from mission to mission. Right now they do not, as their training isn't fully finished with firearms. I'll make it known when they do use them.

@Eyeris: Yeah, I think that would be an interesting limitation. To add to that, Yog doesn't have to take on all of these limitations, so long as the character can be balanced in a way that is fair for Yog and for everyone.

@Everyone: I appreciate the input, just let's remember not to all be too hard on Yog, as we don't want to be unwelcoming, as he certainly is a welcome member to the RP. He's talked to me through PM, and has respectfully handled it, and has put some limitations on his character already.

I'm sorry. I'm sure we all really don't want to gang up on him and tempers flare but we all need to just move on.

Yeah, even I didn't act the way Yog did (too much I think) when I made Artist, but I'm willing to give him a chance. After all, I've been in his shoes, as I'm sure we all remember (most of us, at least).

Gisk said
Actually, bullets don't explode at high temperatures. I know, counter intuitive. Mythbusters tested it. Hey, on that note: Are our characters equipped with guns when in the field?

Gooogle fails me ;-; but if they were on fire they'd explode right?