[quote=Sable]Aside from the fact that critics in favor of video games as art are few and far between,[/quote]

[url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109835-Games-Now-Legally-Considered-an-Art-Form-in-the-USA]Doesn't matter in the face of the law[/url], which overwhelmingly supports the idea of Video Games being an art form, right down to the US Supreme Court repeatedly shooting down attempts to consider it anything less than that. The voice of critics is also overwhelmingly drowned out by the millions of people who play video games and report emotional reactions and personal experiences that stay with them. One prominent example that comes to mind is how people react to various parts of the Mass Effect series, such as the death of Mordin Solus.

[quote=Sable]aside from the fact that interactivity and video games' need to pander to the masses detracts from its artistic value,[/quote]

Since when is this a legitimate criticism? That's like saying that Trucks aren't motor vehicles because they have a trailer on them which harkens back to the good ole medieval days.

[quote=Sable]there is a problem with the universalizing phrase "video games are art" just because they are forms of human expression.[/quote]

No there isn't. They are art. The definition of art as per the Oxford Dictionary.

[url=http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/art](Link)[/url] [mass noun] The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power:

Let me underline that part for you in case you miss it: [u]The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination[/u].

[quote=Sable]Twilight is a form of human expression, do you call that art? What about the products of my kindergarten finger painting lessons? Is that shit art?[/quote]

Yes. It is. You seem to be under this misunderstanding that art requires some profound message or revelation... It doesn't. Even Call of Duty is technically art, though I don't think it's particularly well done, the narrative suffers cognitive disconnect from the game-play so hard that it's sometimes downright [s]racist[/s] hilarious... However, my dislike of Call of Duty doesn't then invalidate others who enjoy it, who enjoy seeing all the set pieces made by [b]artists[/b].

[quote=Sable]Because that's the implication of saying [i]all games are art[/i].[/quote]

Yep. Because it is... Deal with it. :lol

[quote=Sable]Arguing for protection as an artistic medium is a completely different argument, and not the one I'm making here. Protecting video games as an artistic medium? Fine, whatever, but don't tell me that I can hit record, squat in front of a camera and take a shit and call it art.[/quote]

Because arguments using insane extremes will totally sway people to your side.

[quote=Sable]Two different arguments. And on top of that, absolute disrespect of any criticism. "Sable is absolutely wrong."[/quote]

You consider that disrespectful? Sir, that is basic debate. I state that I find your argument to be completely incorrect. However, I'm certain that you manage to maintain an element of civility that proves that we can get past this simple misunderstanding of tone which is often lost through the Internet.

[quote=Sable]I compromised and admitted there was potential for video games to be art. What have you done to actually have a conversation instead of [b]stroking the dude to your left in your circlejerk? Fuckouttahere with that mouth breathing fedora shit.[/b]
[/quote]

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem]Why is it that people always resort to this as a debate tactic[/url]... :lol

[youtube]YomgQMU-2fE[/youtube]