Leonerdo said
Thanks, but I assure you we all know how gender transitions work. This wasn't relevant to the conversation anyways.

it is very relevant to the conversation. Because this is the process itself. The fact that you say it isn't relevant worries me.

This is what she has learned, step by step, this would be a process she would have been exposed to. she believes she is interacting with someone whom she believes is transgendered or in process, she is comparing them to something like this. She looks to see if someone has had facial surgery, an adam's apple, the tone of voice, evidence of hormone therapy, height, bone structure, hip width, shoulder width, hand size, arm/leg length. This sort of knowledge would be her guide in her making her calls. She is very well informed and quite smart. She isn't pulling this out of her ass, she is matching what she sees to what she knows, on paper and with her own experiences. As I finish her history, you'll learn that she has been in various support groups so she could learn about living life as a transmale or transfemale. It is still pretty different for her specifically though because she IS NOT transgendered, but intersexed.

Again, we dont care what the action is. Quinn has no real way of knowing. What we care about is the metagaming itself. As you can see I have several people who agree with me on your action. Instead of dragging the subject on and on, can you just say: "Okay, fixed! I'll make sure to plan things next time instead of just knowing things!"

Because no matter what you tell Allen I'm very sure the verdict will remain the same that she still has no real idea whatsoever. All I care about is nipping this at the bud. Im sure everyone else feels the same. All I need if for it to not happen again.

Look, I understand all of that, but the point is that Quinn shouldn't really know that fast. I came with the reasonable compromise of her suspecting Theresa is trans, but you seemed to have missed that. Personally, I tire of this argument. The moderation team has spoken, and we say it's metagaming. This is the end of the discussion.

She DOES suspect. Why is it so difficult for her to SAY something about her suspicions?? Are you telling me that this is something no one should figure out? That there is NO CONCEIVABLE way that NO ONE could POSSIBLY suspect that she is transgender even though she is still in the process of the change without her taking any hormones or having reconstructive surgery to correct her masculine traits?

If you can honestly answer that as a yes, then YOU are metagaming. Because that is not how it works mid operation. Unless Tess was born a woman with male plumbing, the switch from Male to Female is not so seamless. It is not something that you can change so easily and fool everyone, or even someone that has dealt with and is still dealing with. Tess is basically an unfinished building, a building that is only half done and still has the scaffolding. There is still evidence that Tess was a boy. Masculine women are still women. To an informed eye, someone can tell a masculine woman from a man. The voices are different, the ratios (hip to shoulder, hand to fingers, eye placement to nose and lips) would be different. The only way this scenario makes sense is if Tess looked, acted, and sounded like a woman, not an effeminate boy, but probably was a woman that had under developed testicles and suffered from a condition similar to Quinn's, being intersexed.

As I said before, you can claim the power is "just a power", but that is metagaming in the most basic sense. I don't even think anyone in the X-Men series can just look at someone and know their powers or intentions with a simple look and no psychic abilities.

What I have an issue with is the blatant hypocrisy. I can't use my character's familiarity with the process to go through a basic check of logic, and have her act on what she honestly believes that she knows about something that is visually apparent. But someone else, THE GM no less, can bs his way into knowing something that is supposed to be for us to show, under the veil of "it's a power".

Don't push too hard against the mods. Especially against something that isn't honestly that important...

And I don't think they are being all that unreasonable. Suspecting and unsure is different from knowing with a glance, and that is what they are giving you. And I personally think that is more realistic.

QuietThinker said
Don't push too hard against the mods. Especially against something that isn't honestly important...And I don't think they are being all that unreasonable. Suspecting and unsure is different from knowing with a glance, and that is what they are giving you. And I personally think is more realistic.

It wasn't a glance though. She was studying and ticking off a mental checklist of based upon her initial feelings. Throughout their entire conversation, she is listening, has looked her over more than once, and has SEEN the "masculine" chin and jaw. Tess showed it to her. For someone that is suspecting and believes that, how is that not conclusive enough proof? Yes, many things are taken into effect, but there are TOO MANY things that don't add up for someone as sensitive to this as Quinn. She asked to confirm something, which is something you guys seem to gloss over. She ASKED. She didn't walk away, knowing and just leaving it there. Vaguely, yes, but it is still a question that she will expand upon in her next post. Even if Tess denies it, she is still going to believe that unless she is given strong evidence to the contrary, just as she is given strong evidence supporting her, even if you guys are downplaying the importance of mid-op physical attributes for a male transitioning to a female.

One other thing, why is this such a big deal anyway? This is a character that used observation skills to make a judgment call that she believes is true. She didn't pull this out of her ass, and I will prove it.

I only look at character's appearances because I want Quinn to be as organic as possible. This means that EVERY character will see and hear these things in their interactions with these characters. So, this is basically what she saw and heard:

-hairless face (feminine)
-face (masculine)
-body shape (masculine)
-voice (masculine)
-jaw and chin (masculine)
-lips (masculine)
-nose (more masculine than feminine)
-ears (feminine)
-cheeks (pretty feminine)

That is not including the lack of breasts or the butt, neither of which Quinn has actually looked at.

Now, these are ripped straight out of the appearance section of the character sheet. The appearance section is not subject to metagaming since these things are what we are SUPPOSED to know IC. These are things that our characters are supposed to see and react to. So, looking at this list, having many of these traits being classified as masculine by the character's creator, how can Quinn NOT make a rather concrete (to her) guess that Tess is transgendered? Especially when the voice and jawline are clearly defined as being masculine? Now, it would be easy to say that Quinn has no way of knowing that Tess is FTM or MTF, or maybe Tess is a crossdresser, or maybe she hasn't had surgery at all. maybe she is still a guy, just pretending to be a girl. Hence why she didn't specify. She wouldn't know that at all since FTM hormones DO affect the voice, and the others are self explanatory. But to believe she is a natural female just based on looks? No. There isn't enough evidence to support that.

Alright, this is getting out of hand. I will kindly discuss this with you over PMs in a little while. I am super busy and shizz.

Mk

God damn it Allen.

I've already given my reasons. there is an overwhelming amount of evidence to support why she thought the way she did. As I said, she has been living with this her entire life. To people that don't deal with this sort of thing, it is presumptuous and can come across as arrogant and judgmental.

To Quinn, she is dating this because maybe, just MAYBE she is excited to see that there is a possibility she isn't alone in this school. Yeah, she jumped the gun and is running away with an idea as if if were fact. But what you think about it OOC doesn't matter. She IS flawed, but this is something she knows about more extensively than most of the world.

you guys keep making this about me when it isn't, you especially Leonardo. This isn't about me at all. It is about Quinn trying to make a connection. Not to show that she knows everything and she can guess your gender by using logic. She has her own fears and insecurities about the surgeries and hormone therapy, and here is someone that could very, very likely have gone through it. She is jumping to a conclusion wholeheartedly believing it is true. Let her and then let her deal with the consequences.
Again, had you lot just let the RP play out, you would have learned her intentions, reasons, and why she'd even speak up about it.

GOD DAMMIT

LET'S

JUST

DROP ITTTTTTTTT

I don't care.

Allen has a great idea. Let's do that.

WE NEED TO DROP IT LIKE IT'S HOT

This is a public service announcement.

I'm not pulling names here, but I have noticed that quite a few members have been arguing against the GMs wishes when it could be simply wrapped up in a kind post or two and kept moving. It is getting extremely grating. And it gets even worse when YOU KEEP GOING AFTER I TELL YOU TO STOP. If it continues, people are going to start getting removed from the RP. Plain and simple. I don't want to be a dicktator, but I don't want arguments on my thread, especially when it's against me, or the GMS I appointed. If you don't like how things are run, there are other RPs. If you're fine with it, we can continue to have a nice dandy RP.

I hate for it to be this way, but it's gotta stop one way or another. The choice is yours.

So, in summary of what happened so far for anyone who joins in the future:

After act one ended, everyone gathered in the cafeteria for chatting and eating.

-A few new characters were introduced.
-When breakfast was over, a few people made plans for things later in the act.
-Fast forward towards mid afternoon, power training begins. A few people begin training.
-Allen's character Adam then alls off training and begins CTF or capture the flag. Shit goes down and the lights go out due to Leonerdo's character Peter knocking out the lights. My character Dragonfly goes a little too far in sharing people off. Overall the whole thing goes to shit and Adam calls it off half way through. In the end team one wins due to superior strategy and team work, which team two lacked greatly.
-Fast forward and hour or so. Class is over, and everyone's split up into two major groups. Henry's group, which is leading the charge into a jungle expedition, and the other group headed by Deborah and Shannon. New characters such as Abraham, Ben, and Pink are introduced in this act.
-The jungle group is splitting apart because Matt, the Omnikinetic, wants to meet his girlfriend Amanda and her cousin Nikki. This prompts Asae and Dana's characters to go searching for him under the order of Henry. They're off to go do something or another.
-Shannon interacted and befriended Ben. Deborah was taught how to play pool by Abe. When Inferno's character Red walked in, they departed to handle a feud. Ben and Abe are speaking to one another right now rather humorously.

More stuff is planned, and will happen soon. Stay tuned everyone!

I'm totes going to expand upon that when I get home. I want to cover what happened at the start of the story.

I'm also going to add a few arena layouts for future fights. I got like five in mind.

Since I wanna focus on other characters, the Valos/Sylvia, Valjean, Nikki, and Amanda will be on the shelf unless someone wants character interaction.

Whos at the beach? I'm bored and I might get Mark to run past there.

No one is at the beach yet, but Debs group is going to swing by there, eventually.

Ah fair play. I'll just wait and read then :P