[quote=@LeeRoy]
It really irks the fuck out of me when folks keep on about Mild powers when I was talking about Human Level non-powered. You know, it really proves that they didn't actually read a fucking word I said.
[/quote]

Does it also irk you that mild powers is a higher tier than no powers, meaning that something unfair at mild powers would, by the basic premise of a tier system, be unfair at any level below it? Or did you miss that part?

I mean, that's how tier works. Something fair at "tier 6" but unfair at "tier 5" would also be unfair at all tiers [b]below[/b] tier five because every tier below it subsequently allows for less power. I thought that was self-evident by the fact that we scale them by nonpowered -> mild powers - high powers and so on? To use a less abstract concept, look at an MMORPG. If you can't kill a monster at level 50, why would you be able to kill a monster at level 10? It's literally the [i]exact same premise[/i].

There's no point in discussing how a firearm operates in a non-powered setting when a sufficient argument -- which you've chosen to ignore even though you "technically" agree with every point made other than the conclusion -- has been made explaining why a firearm is unfair at mild powers. Refer again to the MMO concept for why this is.

Again, none of the things you've talked about have any real, meaningful bearing on the logic behind why people disbar guns from mild powers play. It's not about theoretical survival or avoidance, it's about what the weapon provides as advantages versus what a character can do in mild powers. Under no circumstances does a mild power character have a power-set that allows them to throw a projectile at 3,100 ft/s for seventeen posts in a row without any cooldowns, preps, or charges. If you take away the bullets and replace it with fireballs or lightning bolts or ice spears, the basic precedent still exceeds the acceptable scope of power. The fact that it's a mundane item readily available in the real world doesn't change the fact that it's more efficient, effective, and easier to use than most power-sets.

That's it. That's the point. That's why people disbar traditional firearms. It's not because they're cheap, easy, or stupid. It's not even because of their killing capacity. That's icing on the cake, really. It's because how much of an advantage they provide with no meaningful draw-backs compared to what you find in a mild powers powerset.

[@Starfall] Only if they're referred to as a "punchslinger." All punch-classes accepted. Punchslingers, punch-wizards, punch-clerics.