[quote=@Vilageidiotx] How is still holding a foreign monarch as your monarch not tangentially related to prior British subjugation? That's where that came from. And I know B shouldn't be the case, but seriously that is the vibe I am picking up from this conversation, that the Queen is the tender thread that keeps you from being an extension of Minnesota. And I'm not saying you need to have pride in your own achievements for my sake, or the sake of outside judgement. I'm saying you should have pride in your achievements for your own sake. [/quote] There are a few different points here for me to take issue with, and I'm going to be approaching each one individually. 1. [i]"holding a foreign monarch"[/i] Queen Elizabeth II is not a foreign monarch. She is the Queen in Right of Canada. Canada is not currently and has not since its confederation in 1867 been a British possession—a territory over which, as a part of the legal domain of another country, a foreign ruler presides. Victoria through to Elizabeth II have all been monarchs of Canada, independent of their status as monarchs of the rest of the British Empire and Commonwealth. If you'd like an example of a country which is a territory of another country and thus presided over by a foreign ruler, take a look at Puerto Rico. 2. [i]"British subjugation"[/i] Canada has never been subjugated by Britain. North America was, and it was under this state of British subjugation that the Dominion of Canada was eventually born, but that subjugation was ended by the arrival of the Dominion of Canada, not continued through it. Read up on the Chateau Clique and the Family Compact and Lafontaine and Baldwin and responsible government. I don't intend to recite that entire period of history to you. 3. [i]"That's (British subjugation) where that (British monarchy) came from"[/i] Yes, in a similar way to how the borders and names of the Thirteen Colonies all originated from British subjugation, as did the colonists themselves. [b]A historical connection isn't a good reason to excise something from the national consciousness.[/b] For the Dominion of Canada this is doubly true, as it is, as much as anything else, what distinguishes us from the rest of the entire Western Hemisphere. Rather than our historical ties being violently severed (at great loss of life), and their cultural impacts ignored, the ties persisted. They were simply peacefully altered to accommodate self-government. I don't see how being the only one of the nations of the Americas to achieve democracy through democracy is something deserving of shame. May peace forever be our lot and all. Hell, that's even one of the few actual historical aspects of Canadian identity that fit the contrived multicultural Canada that the Trudeau family invented. 4. [i]"Have pride in your own achievements"[/i] We do. That isn't mutually exclusive with the monarchy. Canadians are obnoxiously proud of their country's achievements, even really mediocre achievements like the country's healthcare system.