[@Muttonhawk] Nah, you have a pretty good point. The idea did come up in the first place because of the English descriptions, after all. Denomination systems based on other critera don't really apply as well there (except as BBeast mentioned, as a best-fit model). Although language gets interesting all over again: How does an almost purely visual/motion-based language handle words and concepts that aren't discrete, so to speak? Do Urtelem have a variable spectrum of 'pronouns' based on how the emphasis is distributed in each 'word' to which a pronoun is necessary- Or maybe they don't use pronouns or names at all, distinguishing between one another with temporary verbal labels, somehow? Are they Tolkien Ents, that use their name sparingly, as a continually changing identity story, and otherwise don't need to distinguish between one another's identity during conversation? Or given that their new brains run on graphically represented formulae, do they actually have numbers/equations/shapes as 'names'? Would that feel as dehumanising to them as it does to, well, humans? mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ed ed ed ed: These aren't questions that really need answering, by the way, I'm just having fun [s]avoiding my other responsibilities[/s].