[@mdk] As it happens, I've done some reading regarding MS-13, the Zetas, the Sinaloa ect for a project I'm working on. MS-13 particularly illustrates the danger in a simplistic approach to immigration. The idea that building a huge wall is a practical solution has the appeal of simplicity but I sincerely doubt that it would be physically or fiscally possible. It wouldn't be possible to bring border crossings to a complete stop even with a minefield. The best you can hope for is a somewhat reduction. [quote=@mdk] but it's so much easier to come illegally [/quote] Firstly I doubt anyone coming from somewhere like El Salvador would describe the trip as easy. Secondly it might be easier but its way shittier. I could have just flown in and overstayed my visa, rather than spending several thousand dollars and many months to do it legitimately. Of course that would mean I'd have to accept a life of menial under the table labor with no security rather than practicing my profession. I choose a path that wasn't the path of least resistance but I have the luxury of choice. If there were a realistic option people would take it. If there were a modicum of stability at home people wouldn't be as inclined to risk it in the first place. [quote=@mdk] it's not like these poor folks have time to sit around. [/quote] Indeed not, they are desperate people who have given up everything on the hope of safety and a better life, even though they must know they will never really be part of the society they are going to for sanctuary. [quote=@mdk] we're neglecting a huge, huge source of poverty, crime, and other badness. [/quote] It is being neglected either way, even if its on the other side of a big wall. Coming to America is not a goal in itself. People come here because their situation is dire enough that they feel they have no choice but to attempt it. No one is arguing for some sort of completely open border, but there is a reason we don't see thousands of Americans illegally crossing into Canada every year. People don't break the law because they are evil (generally) they do it because they are desperate. So long as we continue to pretend that building a wall or digging a moat or whatever is going to solve the problem, its never going to get much better.