Grants Lancer a rank-up to all parameters while in enemy territory.

This is probably the most fitting ability that I can think of for this type of HGW in the right circumstances.
One issue I can find is that the Riding skill should probably be ranked-down similar to Arturia when summoned in Saber class, since it seems class skills outside of your own incurs a penalty normally (with some exceptions).

@1Charak2@vancexentan

Sorry @vancexentan, I only tagged Turbo because he wasn't online at the time I posted Lancer's sheet.

I believe his third NP reasonably belongs there mainly due to the fact that it's fairly easy to kill, anyway. His horse isn't like a normal Rider's mount, so it doesn't get beefed up stats, and it only serves as extra transportation in a fight. It's basically one of those "one and done" Noble Phantasms that will probably only see the light of day to one, maybe two fights overall in the span of the entire Holy Grail War.

As for why it rivals Balmung in power, it is because of its false divine nature. While it is still a mockery of a divine authority, it still imitates it to some effect. He was seen and partially worshipped as a Sun God, after all. Added with how he razed a bunch of temples and is famous for being a dick (which is why you don't learn about him in history class), I'd come to believe that an attack based off of pure destruction of that magnitude would be pretty formitable.

@MeteorD

The reason why Artoria doesn't have a high rank in Riding is because she has no legends regarding her mounting anything, and only has the skill because she's a knight trained in it. Pedro on the other hand does have one notable legend about him riding a horse, which is seen in his third NP. Plus, when Artoria is summoned as a Lancer, she gets an A-rank in Riding along with her own (nothing special) horse

@1Charak2@vancexentan

Sorry @vancexentan, I only tagged Turbo because he wasn't online at the time I posted Lancer's sheet.

I believe his third NP reasonably belongs there mainly due to the fact that it's fairly easy to kill, anyway. His horse isn't like a normal Rider's mount, so it doesn't get beefed up stats, and it only serves as extra transportation in a fight. It's basically one of those "one and done" Noble Phantasms that will probably only see the light of day to one, maybe two fights overall in the span of the entire Holy Grail War.

As for why it rivals Balmung in power, it is because of its false divine nature. While it is still a mockery of a divine authority, it still imitates it to some effect. He was seen and partially worshipped as a Sun God, after all. Added with how he razed a bunch of temples and is famous for being a dick (which is why you don't learn about him in history class), I'd come to believe that an attack based off of pure destruction of that magnitude would be pretty formitable.

@MeteorD

The reason why Artoria doesn't have a high rank in Riding is because she has no legends regarding her mounting anything, and only has the skill because she's a knight trained in it. Pedro on the other hand does have one notable legend about him riding a horse, which is seen in his third NP. Plus, when Artoria is summoned as a Lancer, she gets an A-rank in Riding along with her own (nothing special) horse

Wheres his low ranking divinity? Due to those believing him to be the sun god incarnate. That usually grants low divinity. Seems like an interesting thing to leave absent considering he seems based more on his legend of being a god of the sun in terms of attacks.

@1Charak2

He wasn't actually a god in the end, hence why he doesn't have Divinity as a skill. Him being a false divine in his legend is what nets him skills like Mana Burst (Flame)

EDIT: It's like how Vlad wasn't actually a vampire, yet he has a Noble Phantasm that manifests that legend.

@Cu Chulainn
Divinity is not always dependant on the actual facts concerning the matter. Alexander is a good example, since he had Divinity even prior to recognizing himself as one simply because of the people's belief (albeit at a low ranking).
Also, 3 Noble Phantasms does sound questionable for a lesser known hero. If this was taking place in his homeland then it would make more sense, but I wouldn't say Scotland is a land where each of his deeds are as known.

EDIT: Innocent Monster is also something you could have considered for it.

@MeteorD
Unlike Alexander, the belief that he was a god wasn't as popular to warrant an actual ranking in Divinity. He never ascended, and he was never actually fully ordained or completely worshipped as the Sun God. The Aztecs just thought he looked cool when he arrived.

@Cu Chulainn Noble phantasm horses are still the icon of the rider class. Boudica, and Alexander are primary examples of this. If you can point me towards a canon servant that has his, or her horse despite not being of the rider class I'll reconsider my stance on the matter.

The second noble phantasm's strength should match his infamy in History. When I think of the Aztecs slaughter I think of I think of Cortez. On merit that he is a lesser Conquistador the phantasm should be weaker. One of the other roleplays has also told me that they believe the phantasm is also too strong, and or that it should be anti-fortress given it's inherent destructive ability. Someone has said that it is basically my Blood Clarent Arthur but stronger.

Also they brought up that Conquistador is basically a fame boost for wherever they are at. The skill either should be reworked into a 'surrounded by enemy' mechanic or changed. The skill is warranted given his status as one but the wording, and nature of it means he can practically get a skill boost by simply going out to battle.

Also the anonymous messanger also is taking issue with the fact that your magical resistance should be A instead of A+ with A+ only being against certain types of magic.

@Cu Chulainn Noble phantasm horses are still the icon of the rider class. Boudica, and Alexander are primary examples of this. If you can point me towards a canon servant that has his, or her horse despite not being of the rider class I'll reconsider my stance on the matter.

Lancer Arturia

@Cu Chulainn
If he holds a close enough association to the Sun God to manifest Noble Phantasms on the level of Balmung from their beliefs, then it's kind of silly to imply that it's not worthy of Divinity and/or Innocent Monster. Granted it was from his actions as well, but considering that his actions held close similarity to the way they viewed him since his initial arrival, I'd still say the point stands.

@Cu ChulainnIf you can point me towards a canon servant that has his, or her horse despite not being of the rider class I'll reconsider my stance on the matter.

There's Lancer Arturia, although that horse didn't manifest as a Noble Phantasm.

@GreyLancer Artoria's horse was as @MeteorD said didn't manifest itself as an actual noble phantasm which is what the current lancer is trying to use. Her only NP is Rhongomyniad.

@Cu Chulainn

The thing about FATE servants is that they tend to manifest things even after they are dead. Vlad gained his vamperic qualitys not from life but from people believing him to be dracula. Same can be said for Lancer Balthory, Her Innocent monster manifested because of peoples beliefs, Shes not actually a dragon girl.

So even so he should probably have E- Divinity at the very least due to him being initially seen as the god of the sun, and most of his powers originating from that (such as mana burst flame, being the best example, which could easily be chalked up to him having due to peoples belief)

@vancexentan

If we're being technical, the Noble Phantasm isn't specifically the horse. It's the mental interference that makes people think Lancer is a centaur when riding into battle. I even cited that as an example, if he were summoned as a Rider, he'd be able to actually use it regularly. It's like Mordred's Secret of Pedigree, which would normally seem to be a skill that belongs to an Assassin.

His second Noble Phantasm does actually match his infamy in history, and if you gave at least his Wikipedia page a read, or some other biographies about Pedro, then it'd be easily understandable how infamous he is. He isn't taught in school because of how he didn't actually contribute to history. He's known to be ruthless, even for a conquistador. One that various people made actual legends about. And if we are to compare between his NP and Blood Arthur, Blood Arthur is still arguably stronger. Pedro's second NP is basically a bird shaped giant fireball. They share the same NP rank, for one, and Pedro's NP has more factors as to whether it'd be less effective against certain foes.

Conquistador doesn't give its boosts unless you're actually in enemy territory. It's like if he were summoned as Lancer of Red, he'd have to be in the Yggdimillenia Castle or in Lancer of Black's claimed leylines in order to get its boosts. Plus, there's other canon skills that would boost parameters when surrounded by enemies, and it wouldn't make as much sense. Skills are pretty specific in what they intend. Just because he's surrounded by enemies doesn't mean he'd get the boost. He'd have to be in their actual territory in order to use it.

As for Lancer's Magic Resistance, if you read the last sentence in its description, then its plus modifier would be clear as to what it does.

@1Charak2

In the Fate universe, Heroic Spirits actually can deny certain skills, with Divinity being one of them, and yet still have another feature that alludes to such. Alexander has Divinity because he recognizes himself as the son of Zeus, and even if he didn't, due to how old he is in history, and that we're dealing with the Fate universe where gods did exist and he's from the Age of Gods, then him having a ranking in that skill makes sense. Lancer on the other hand has no cults dedicated to him, and would deny that he's actually a sun god seeing as he's a pretty devout Catholic as implied from his first NP, among other things.

And to further add to the example of denial, Vlad doesn't have 10 skills saying he's a Vampire because people said so. In fact, in the version where he denies he is a Vampire, the only thing that alludes to him being a vampire is his second NP.

If I were to give Pedro Divinity, then I'd have to rank up his Mana Burst and do all sorts of adjustments, because there's multiple citations in his sheet that say that his "divine" abilities are only a mockery compared to actual divine spirits.

@vancexentan

If we're being technical, the Noble Phantasm isn't specifically the horse. It's the mental interference that makes people think Lancer is a centaur when riding into battle. I even cited that as an example, if he were summoned as a Rider, he'd be able to actually use it regularly. It's like Mordred's Secret of Pedigree, which would normally seem to be a skill that belongs to an Assassin.

His second Noble Phantasm does actually match his infamy in history, and if you gave at least his Wikipedia page a read, or some other biographies about Pedro, then it'd be easily understandable how infamous he is. He isn't taught in school because of how he didn't actually contribute to history. He's known to be ruthless, even for a conquistador. One that various people made actual legends about. And if we are to compare between his NP and Blood Arthur, Blood Arthur is still arguably stronger. Pedro's second NP is basically a bird shaped giant fireball. They share the same NP rank, for one, and Pedro's NP has more factors as to whether it'd be less effective against certain foes.

Conquistador doesn't give its boosts unless you're actually in enemy territory. It's like if he were summoned as Lancer of Red, he'd have to be in the Yggdimillenia Castle or in Lancer of Black's claimed leylines in order to get its boosts. Plus, there's other canon skills that would boost parameters when surrounded by enemies, and it wouldn't make as much sense. Skills are pretty specific in what they intend. Just because he's surrounded by enemies doesn't mean he'd get the boost. He'd have to be in their actual territory in order to use it.

As for Lancer's Magic Resistance, if you read the last sentence in its description, then its plus modifier would be clear as to what it does.

@1Charak2

In the Fate universe, Heroic Spirits actually can deny certain skills, with Divinity being one of them, and yet still have another feature that alludes to such. Alexander has Divinity because he recognizes himself as the son of Zeus, and even if he didn't, due to how old he is in history, and that we're dealing with the Fate universe where gods did exist and he's from the Age of Gods, then him having a ranking in that skill makes sense. Lancer on the other hand has no cults dedicated to him, and would deny that he's actually a sun god seeing as he's a pretty devout Catholic as implied from his first NP, among other things.

And to further add to the example of denial, Vlad doesn't have 10 skills saying he's a Vampire because people said so. In fact, in the version where he denies he is a Vampire, the only thing that alludes to him being a vampire is his second NP.

If I were to give Pedro Divinity, then I'd have to rank up his Mana Burst and do all sorts of adjustments, because there's multiple citations in his sheet that say that his "divine" abilities are only a mockery compared to actual divine spirits.

Secret of pedigree can be seen as something similar to Lancelots skill that also masks who they are.

I think the entire character is one of confliction. Denies his divinity due to being a devout follower of the lord. Yet the second noble phantasm and the mana burst are a direct result of his 'divinity'. If you remove NP 2 and the mana burst. Then you have yourself the devout conquestor.

The other half is a percieved sun god, which you say he denies. Thus making those skills hypocritical.

In my opinion Cu, you should pick either the percieved sun god (which is unlikely) or the devout conqueror.

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

Secret of pedigree can be seen as something similar to Lancelots skill that also masks who they are.

I think the entire character is one of confliction. Denies his divinity due to being a devout follower of the lord. Yet the second noble phantasm and the mana burst are a direct result of his 'divinity'. If you remove NP 2 and the mana burst. Then you have yourself the devout conquestor.

The other half is a percieved sun god, which you say he denies. Thus making those skills hypocritical.

He gains his power by association, not by actually being a perceived god, as explained multiple times on his sheet. Giving him Divinity or Innocent Monster is just giving him another skill, which in turn is giving him more benefits. Technically he'd have way too much skills as a result.

<Snipped quote by 1Charak2>

He gains his power by association, not by actually being a perceived god, as explained multiple times on his sheet. Giving him Divinity or Innocent Monster is just giving him another skill, which in turn is giving him more benefits. Technically he'd have way too much skills as a result.

If his powers are by association which he denies due to his devout Catholicism. Then half of his stuff makes no sense and seems tacked as it conflicts which his denial of god hood even a mockery of it.

You could easily shift some things around to better suit the mortal man. Just remove the mana burst (which is hypocrisy.)

Keep the second NP as him being associated with the sun god but his denial restricts it to being a NP only.

Then just have the two parameters raised by the spear have a minus modifier due to his denial.

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

If his powers are by association which he denies due to his devout Catholicism. Then half of his stuff makes no sense and seems tacked as it conflicts which his denial of god hood.

After doing research on all canon Heroic Spirits who do have Divinity, I believe I have to correct myself. It's not even a denial of his supposed godhood, if we're being technical. His divinity isn't speculated, it just isn't there. He isn't a divine spirit, nor is he related to one, nor is he worshiped in the way a saint is. There aren't any cults to Pedro de Alvarado, and his skills come from what the natives saw him as. He never ascended as a divine spirit, and if he did, then pretty much all foreigners/conquistadors of his time should be divine spirits then, since he isn't the only foreigner that could have been mistook for a God due to his foreign looks.

He's not a god. He's not part god. He's not worshipped as a god. No real aptitude for Divinity. He's just drawing on the power of the legends where he's associated with the Sun God, just like how other Heroic Spirits draw upon their own legends to produce their various abilities.

<Snipped quote by 1Charak2>

After doing research on all canon Heroic Spirits who do have Divinity, I believe I have to correct myself. It's not even a denial of his supposed godhood, if we're being technical. His divinity isn't speculated, it just isn't there. He isn't a divine spirit, nor is he related to one, nor is he worshiped in the way a saint is. There aren't any cults to Pedro de Alvarado, and his skills come from what the natives saw him as. He never ascended as a divine spirit, and if he did, then pretty much all foreigners/conquistadors of his time should be divine spirits then, since he isn't the only foreigner that could have been mistook for a God due to his foreign looks.

He's not a god. He's not part god. He's not worshipped as a god. No real aptitude for Divinity. He's just drawing on the power of the legends where he's associated with the Sun God, just like how other Heroic Spirits draw upon their own legends to produce their various abilities.

Drawing on Legends (of being seen as the sun god) which you say he denies seems to counteract his personality. As drawing on that power would make his statement on not wanting to be seen as that, kinda hypocritical. So if he did have them They would probably be sealed until forced out by a command seal.

Purely put his powers are conflicting.

edit; IT can be seen similar to Lancer Dracula.

You have to force him to activate the NP phantasm.

<Snipped quote by Cu Chulainn>

Drawing on Legends (of being seen as the sun god) which you say he denies seems to counteract his personality. As drawing on that power would make his statement on not wanting to be seen as that, kinda hypocritical. So if he did have them They would probably be sealed until forced out by a command seal.

Purely put his powers are conflicting.

I'd like to state that I was only using the example of "rejecting his divinity" because I actually didn't do research on the Divinity skill.

I'm not saying he's actually denying his Divinity anymore because after doing more research on the topic, he definitely does not have any aptitude to being a Divine Spirit, which is what the Divinity skill is supposed to do. In fact, seeing as how he's pretty vilified and enjoys conquering, he would insist that he is a God. Divinity doesn't come from just saying you're a god, or from people believing you're a god based upon looks. Divinity comes from actually having aptitude as a divine spirit, whether it be being a demigod, actually ascending as a god in legend, or otherwise. You can't self-suggest that you are a god, and suddenly go to the afterlife where gods go. He's drawing upon that legend of being the Sun God similarly to how Vlad would draw upon his legend as Dracula, except now that I did my actual research, he definitely wouldn't reject to being.

As for him being a devout Catholic, that was also stated in the mindset that I didn't actually do my research on the Divinity skill. Based upon his actual wanton cruelty and destructive history, he most definitely isn't a devout in the sense that Jeanne D'Arc or Saint George are. His spear was blessed, and that's because of an actual written legend that he was blessed by the Virgin Mary.

Apologies for the double post, but I'd like to just make a few things clear in regards to Pedro, since there are a few arguments against some of his abilities.

Firstly, I'd like to apologize if I sounded like I was argumentative. I was balancing a few other things on my end and I just wanted to back up my sheet especially since this isn't the first time I've been into conflict due to the things the Servant I'm putting up can or can't do.

As for his abilities in question

Firstly, I'm very much willing to part with Lancer's third NP seeing the circumstances, although I was arguing as to why I believe it should stay. As said, it isn't a pure mount NP, and if required, I can clarify that it is a mental effect that takes place if Lancer was on his mount, and not that it is his mount in question. His capabilities of summoning his mount is coming from how some non-Rider Servants can some their own mounts as well, with Lancer!Artoria being an example. I'll further explain that the mount isn't special in any way, save that it is special in the same way a mundane, non-NP weapon a Heroic Spirit would have if summoned is. Plus, there's multiple instances of Heroic Spirits having Noble Phantasms that seem sensible for another class to have. Like Lancelot, or even Fate/Apocrypha's confirmed best girl Astolfo, who literally has a lance as one of his NPs. (Astolfo's also to Roland as Pedro is to Cortez in terms of his renown, yet he has a whole lot of Noble Phantasms as well, but that's another argument altogether.)

Secondly, to the argument of his skills being conflicting, they don't really seem to be so, and they were chosen within reason. He doesn't have the blood of a divine spirit, he isn't revered as a saint like Saint George or Saint Martha, and he wasn't actually worshiped. The reason why he has powers stemming from false divinity is because it's in association with his legend. Even if he wanted to be a god, which he probably would have given his character, he still doesn't have the aptitude for being a divine spirit. Innocent Monster also isn't something he qualifies for since it's a skill based off of distortions of one's monstrous reputation. Pedro does not have a reputation for being a god, it's just from how he was believed to be one by a few natives that adds to his legend. Mana Burst (Flames) is the closest thing to a skill that denotes his false divinity, and his Second NP doesn't just draw from the association, although that association is a core part of it.

For Lancer's second NP, the reasoning behind its measured power is due to multiple factors. 1, it's a false divine authority based off of Lancer's association with the sun gods, and true divine authorities are much, much stronger in power. Lancer's able to draw upon the associated powers that his false divinity entails purely because it associates to his legend. 2, it's also a culmination of his destructive nature. 3, I also compared it to Galatine, which isn't a sword whose legend is known very much, yet has similar destructive power to Balmung. All in all, it's an attack drawing upon divine power (even if it's false), as well as what Pedro de Alvarado is most known for; his ruthless, destructive nature.

Lastly, the reason why he has a lot of NPs is because he did quite a bit more in his legends as well as in history than a few others. Many top-tier Heroic Spirits who have less NPs have NPs that are conceptually stronger than Pedro's because they're known for their sole feats, or that their NPs are a culmination of one famous act they've gained renown for. It's like how Astolfo has a bunch, yet he isn't well known, and that's because of the many stories surrounding him.

Wow a lot sure can happen in the span of two episodes of GoT...

Okay, so. Given what you've said so far, @Cu Chulainn, I'm willing to allow his Conquistador stat buff so long as it works the way you've described. The Black Faction will have a specific base of operations in this RP, just like us, and so long as the boost only manifests when Pedro is literally storming the castle and inside the walls of the enemy stronghold (or within their Bounded Fields or other perimeter defenses). In that situation he will more than likely be outnumbered and beset on all sides by traps, familiars, and enemy magi on top of all their Servants, so if he's going to march towards either death or defeat, I'm willing to give the mad bastard my blessing for bravery, if nothing else.

However I'd like some quantification on the Luck check for his first NP, and I do think that instead of literally being forced to their knees (unless you were being metaphorical), they should just be encumbered with Rank Down in stats, as is the case for other mental interference skills.

Honestly, I have no issue with his Anti-Army NP, however I do suggest you incorporate Innocent Monster into your sheet as suggested, simply because Pedro needs justification for his association with the Aztec sun god and he doesn't actually have Divinity as you've explained.

As for his horse, normally I'd say he could just ride any old horse into battle with his Rank in Riding, but then that kinda just makes the NP more problematic as he loses the weakness of it disappearing with his horse. Truth be told I'm not quite sure what to do with it. It certainly seems like an NP better suited to a Rider class Servant, but it also ties heavily into the greatest part of Pedro's legend. Any further thoughts on the horse, @vancexentan?