Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by j8cob appeal 2
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j8cob appeal 2

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@POOHEAD189 I misunderstood. My apologies. I didn't mean to imply you didn't like me, I was just excusing the possibility as a means to get a point across. For what it's worth I think you're a cool dude yourself. When you're around.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by TheTwistedOne
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@TheTwistedOne Not gonna apologize either.


I was present for your ban dumbdumb.. even I think it was unjust.

But sometimes it's easier to just swallow our pride and be the bigger person, and not expect an apology. I hope you do get one though.
Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by mickilennial
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@Inkarnate There is no inverse here. I am not in the wrong. Supposing there is a possibility that I might be wrong for the sake of equal measure to words is critically flawed. I can be wrong on subjects, I'm not infallible. But to suggest I'm in the wrong here is a demonstration of ignorance to the topic at hand. The question becomes if its willful or benign and with you I'm not sure.

You personally? Probably not. From the information I have I think I generally agree that you’re right about the lack of procedure that led up to your ban. That said, I disagree and agree with people on both sides of the fence on this dispute. Nyt seems to think my intention is to incite fear, which I don’t agree with but like I said I might need to critically review my initial thoughts on the subject – but I’m not ignorant on the events that led up to these issues and how they escalated. How is it not possible that this situation, as complex as it may be, can't have a different conclusion than the “opposition” being right? Most have admitted that this is kind of a two to tango escalation.

Also, for the record I have no real problems with you and in the past I have only thought your decorum exhausting and a bit too antagonistic at times. I have been removed from you in the time since so I really have no issue despite some of your estimations of my character being less than favorable.

EDIT: I know I owe apologies and explanations to certain people, and I have been slowly trying to meet those but that seems to be more difficult for a variety of reasons. If anyone wants those answers, they know where to find me.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Meth Quokka
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-


I'm not here to create parity in the argument, I'm here to try and find a solution. I have no stakes in the argument that is being had.

I will never ban someone for constructive criticism when it's presented in a civil manner, which I'm hoping my actions in this thread are helping promote.

Asking for a little compromise from each side is the best way to find that path IMO. Anyone that knows me from my previous stint as a mod will know I owned up to my mistakes either publicly or privately, depending on the situation.

@Kangaroo
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I can understand how you feel that way and accept that there's nothing I can do for your personal situation. However the compromises I'm asking for is how can we mend this rift for the betterment of the community. As I've said before, there are discussions being had between the mod team, we just need to find the appropriate solution that we cna all get behind.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by Cyndyr
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As I've said before, there are discussions being had between the mod team, we just need to find the appropriate solution that we cna all get behind.

I'm not sure if the Staff team has any direct power over this, but many have suggested uniform and solid rules be written with consistent enforcement. I was wondering if that would be a valid suggestion to offer up to you all?
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Ruby
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Second (third? fourth?) the appeal to keep this civil.

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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ML
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what part has been uncivil? this page seems fine
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Cyndyr
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what part has been uncivil? this page seems fine

Most of it has been civil aside from some minor insults earlier on and use of Nazis for comparison, but that (hopefully) seems to have shut down.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by ML
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yeah, i meant page 8 is fine more than anythin

nice doggo petting gif
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Cyndyr
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yeah, i meant page 8 is fine more than anythin

nice doggo petting gif

Thank you! And hopefully we can keep it that way.

In the meantime, if anyone has anymore civil comments to make, then they are more than free to do so. This goes for both users and administration (i.e: what would you like to see change?, is there any specific feedback that you would like to offer up?, etc.) and these may be countered in a respectful manner. I would like to ask that if anyone makes a claim, that they back it up with proof and the accused has the right to explain/defend themselves to an open-minded audience. Lastly, and this should go without saying, do not attack each otber.

Hopefully with these measures put into place, we can move on with the discussion.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Briza
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Moderator, bless.

The Reverend Moderator @Hank,

Forgive me.

In unfortunate circumstances regarding the darkened light of recent travesty which has been bestowed upon the struggling community of Roleplayer Guild, I am requesting the honor of your time and patience to grace @j8cob appeal 2 with an answer to his honest and humble inquiry.

Kissing your right hand,

@Briza
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Hank
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I was about to ignore my guests for a long time to write a post to address everything in this thread and then I realized that's very inappropriate, so you'll have to wait until next week. Apologies.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Briza
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Moderator, bless.

The Reverend Moderator @Hank,

Forgive me, again.

Thank you for your time and consideration on the matter at hand. Your response shall be patiently awaited with much gratitude.

Kissing your right hand,

@Briza
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Didgeridont
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As I've said before, there are discussions being had between the mod team, we just need to find the appropriate solution that we cna all get behind.


I think those discussions should also be had between the staff and the community. Plainly speaking, it would be disadvantageous for the community to allow the staff to come up with "fixes" to their issues by themselves, because it is in the administration's best interest to let this blow over, to paint everything as a non-issue, and to not have to really change anything. There have been a number of ideas listed here as to how the administration can satiate the needs of the community (I'm not just talking about people perturbed about getting banned or that the staff talked smack about them, but rather about how, moving forward, administrating the site should occur) and I think that the discussion about what can/should be done should take place publicly, to allow for the kind of accountability and transparency people have been asking for.

It is seemingly more and more evident that the replies of staff have been less and less in response to the actual subject of the thread and more about policing the tone/rhetoric of the replies. While I'm happy that the moderators are here to make sure everyone follows the rules, I'd be happier if they focused on the real topic of this discussion: fixing the fundamental problems in how the staff operates.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Frizan
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As everything I could say has already been said, and oft times more eloquently/with far less salt, I will simply put in my two cents to say that I also believe that moderation on the Guild has been inconsistent at best, and would rather the team work with the community rather than hide away in their private chatlogs and devise "solutions" for the community without consultation.

I add my voice to this discussion so this whole thing has less of a chance to be blown under the rug as just something a "vocal minority" came up with. Accusing the grieved parties of vocal minority status is a common way to stifle discourse and attempt to discredit others in the eyes of third-party observers, and I'd hate to think the moderation staff, or even other regular users would stoop to such a low tactic.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Nevix
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Resurrecting myself just to post here.

I hate to be another line-toeing, middle-ground-taking, on-the-fence voice among many, but I think it's fairly clear that all of us want the same thing, right? No one is here twirling some evil-ass mustache behind their computer screen laughing about how their scheme to topple the Guild has come to fruition. All of us are here, in this civil discussion thread, because we want to improve the site.

I'm not here to preach, not here to hit y'all with that "let's all just come to an understanding" line. I'm here to just comment on how cool it is that everyone seems to be really mature about the whole situation, and I think we've already taken the first few steps to resolving this situation. I think everyone is going to come out of this being either a better member, or a better mod.

So, good job, guys! We didn't turn this into a shit show!

-Nev
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by RWBY Spectre
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To all of those reading/taking part on this thread.

I'll be sincere with you all.

Based on what I have seen of this discussion until now, I don't think that it's going to achieve any objective other than a revision of the bans of the people mentioned multiple times on this thread.

The majority staff isn't just eneough transparent, mature, and open to criticism enough to come here and discuss this with the community. Of the ones that posted here until now, @Ruby and @NuttsnBolts, seen like they just came to try to save face and looking like they are open to discussion, when they trully aren't. In fact, Nutt's first post on this discussion was an open attempt to shut down all dialogue and shift the blame on the community and, especially @Cyndyr, this thread's OP.

*On the question of why we do not allow other members to create an appeal for a ban member, the last two cases show the various extremes of someone who has obeyed the rules of their ban, and someone who intends to continue with their immaturity. We need to evaluate the user on an individual level.
(Nyt: Your Discord ban is currently being reviewed)


This is probably one of the worst issues of the moderation so far, this no discussion policy and no thrid party appeal. It just doesn't make sense, especially when the mods can just use their function's prerogative to ignore whatever they want... until the situation explodes, like this.

The next point I would like to address is Cyndyr's decision for quoting my Private discussion with her. You by no means were obligated to display the additional portion of that discussion that I held with you, but you chose to do so. The reason why I directed you to Ruby was because I had no part in that discussion and if you would like to remedy any views on your persona then it would probably be a wiser decision to talk to the Staff Member in question rather than someone who was at the time heading second hand news.

As pointed out you and Ruby had some sort of dispute that branches back to before the creation of RPG Official and you should be the one to take responsibility for those actions. The mention of accountability has been bought up in this thread, but by creating this thread you have also involved multiple members of the community who have nothing to do with the events being discussed. Do you take ownership for that in the same way that I have taken ownership for the bans, and mistakes, that I have made within my short time as a moderator?

Your actions here, combined with Grim's actions, and even the actions of the staff, have affected many members in a negitive way. Friendships have been lost, trust shattered throughout the community, and the screenshots of who is the worse person needs to stop if we have any desire to move forward. Continuing to fight, rather than discuss; aggravated rants, rather than reports; and even quick reactions rather than a step back and reflection, have all stopped people from roleplaying and forced them into a battle of site politics. In future, raise your concerns through the correct channels so we can deal with them more efficiently.


Declarations such as this are dangerous in so many ways that it's even hard to name them. If publicly denouncing potential power abuse and asking for explanations by relying on the power of the community is so wrong, explain to me why is it that the democratic government model (flawed as it's), is still the system most people in the world perfer to live under?

Conformism and behind the doors discussion aren't ways to improve, just push this further and further towards a dictatorship-like status.

Throughout all of the history of mankind, there were always people willing to sacrifice themselves for change and those willing to crush the voice of the opposition. Which group are you in?




To conclude I will not be discussing this post any more and if someone wishes to see additional evidence on the bans, to discuss the accountability of the staff, or to question the meaning of my message, they are to PM me directly. Keep in mind that you will be talking to a site moderator and if I deem the topic not to a satisfactory, mature level I will declare the topic annul.


This one is hardly worthy commenting. It was just a plain and not even veiled at all attempt to kill the debate. Nevertheless, it failed and Nutts came back anyway. The intent is clear but it couldn't hold up against the pressure of the masses. I would like to believe that it signals change, but that's not so evident up to now.

Will it be someday? Who knows?

@Kangaroo

You are the only one that still has my unconditional respect up to now, based on your declarations. Nevertheless, if the mods are discussing among themselves, like you said, whys is it that they can't come over here and be open with us? Just as pointed by others in this thread? The only impression that their secrecy gives off is that the moderation is either plotting a way to quell the discussion or... taking the coward's route and waiting for the "fire to die out" befre they can come crawling out of the Discord bunker.

This is seriously one of the most disgusting demonstrations of behavior form public figures that I have seen in quite a while. It's just insane how none of you can see it. Shocking, is the only word I have to say.

I was about to ignore my guests for a long time to write a post to address everything in this thread and then I realized that's very inappropriate, so you'll have to wait until next week. Apologies.


You have greatly disappointed me by promissing to address the needs of the community over the course of the week and not popping back even once.

When you do come back it's to post a snide comment such as the one above. I mean, if don't have time and or interest for this thread, at least don't post this kind of obviously vitriolic comment.

Please, don't make this look like it's a non-issue. It's not.

Finally, to address the elephant in the room that no one else is willing to poke:

Where is @Mahz at a time like this? Please, don't come to me and say that he's having problems with RL business. Unless he's stuck in a hospital bed, or is taking care of someone who's, it's impossible that he can't spare even an hour of his time to come and take care of the community he created.

It's just blatant irresponsibility. He wants to reap the laurels of being the creator and director of this site, of having his work praised, but doesn't want to be open and discuss stuff with us when it matters? When we bring valid and important questions to him? That's just not how a leader behaves, simple as that.

To conclude my statement, just beware that this kind of situation (lack of leadership qualities from those in command) can be easily addressed by applying the principles of basic leadership presented by people like Sun Tzu in the past. A quick read of the Art of War, is probably enough to have you reflect on your actions and try to come back here for a proper discussion and with a positive attitude towards this community.

A leader that doesn't act as a leader doesn't deserve to lead. There are only three routes that you can go from there: Either he changes, he steps down, or he's deposed... or you be like the Brazilian government, that's your choice as well.

Cordially,

— RS
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Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Ruby
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Dangerous and irresponsible to dismiss private conversation as a push for dictator-status.

I had two private discussions with people from this thread yesterday. Both seemed to be positive to me, though I suppose Cyndyr and Twisted may have different views. I reached out to one, and the other reached out to me; there was certainly no face saving there. Just an attempt to be genuine and communicate.
Hidden 7 yrs ago Post by Lady Absinthia
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After reading through this, and other issues that have come over the years, I have placed a suggestion in Mahz's Dev Journal to implement a 3rd party Peer Review Council for Bans/Staff. I believe it would give members of the forum better peace of mind and the staff someone to be held officially accountable to.
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Hidden 7 yrs ago 7 yrs ago Post by mickilennial
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After reading through this, and other issues that have come over the years, I have placed a suggestion in Mahz's Dev Journal to implement a 3rd party Peer Review Council for Bans/Staff. I believe it would give members of the forum better peace of mind and the staff someone to be held officially accountable to.

I’ve posted my thoughts, but a “staff to moderate staff” just seems convoluting an issue for the sake of going beyond compromise to me. It won’t be a good idea because even if the idea were to be considered by Mahz he would have to vet that sub-sect of the staff even harder than anyone else he has appointed previously and he already has enough challenges making this site run smoothly.
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