@The Harbinger of Ferocity Feel free to chime in, Cat-man.

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>

>implying I'm altright beyond the vague term of alternative right wing to the neocon libertarian crowd

>implying

>imblyign

I didn't call you anything, kid.

>inferring

>inferring

>inferring

We don't generally hand out 2nd place trophies for wars friend. It's best we just tear'em all down now.

Well unlike most of the big wars that make the history books, those are not from Civil Wars. Families were split up over loyalty to their state and loyalty to the federal government. It was a war where also every single casualty was an American. The South was down right proud of how long they managed to hold out and had a good chance of actually forcing a settlement and becoming an independent confederation of states if it had not been for some very key mistakes on the battlefield.

The South never wanted to conquer the North, they just wanted to be left well enough alone. The famous Emancipation Proclamation was a key strategic move by President Lincoln and the North both to boost their own fighting forces by getting the slaves excited by freedom to start working for them, to hit the South economically as hard as possible, and to give their fight the moral edge they needed to get the regular people back on their side in the seemingly never ending war. Most likely slavery would have died out on its own eventually but the Civil War, forced the United States to drop it very quickly since the North needed to do that to give them the edge they needed.

So why do we have so many statues of Robert E. Lee? Robert E. Lee was a very likable man, a very successful general, and people on both sides of the war had great respect for the man. When the war was just in its infancy President Lincoln himself asked Robert E. Lee to lead the Union troops, but the man was a state loyalist first, and so when Virginia joined the Confederacy that is the side he joined. Robert E. Lee lead the Confederacy to victory many times throughout the war, basically was one of the main reasons the Confederacy had a chance to win, although he was also the main reason they lost in the end because of his rash decisions at Gettysburg which prevented the Confederacy from being able to put Washington DC ever in danger again so they could force terms.

Even after the war, Robert E. Lee was treated with great respect though because of the side he took he was banned from ever running for a lot of government positions. Many people still considered him a great and honorable man and if he had never joined the Confederacy had a good chance to have been elected President of the United States if he had ever run. The South was proud of what they had accomplished and to help ease relations during and after reconciliation, why not allow a few statues of great men and leaders to be erected? No one put those statues up because they fought to protect slavery, but because they fought for their state's rights and gave the Union a run for their money for many years.

I would say the statues were an overall nice way to give tribute to the men who gave their lives in service to a cause they believed in and helped the South to overcome the bitter feelings of their defeat and the many changes their society had to go through in a very short period of time. By having the nation respect these men, it helped with the reconciliation process and made reminders to all that even good men could be on the wrong side of history, also the hope that the good people of America would never be forced to choose sides and fight in a civil war ever again, a tragedy that should never be repeated.

Despite the wrongness of slavery which is what the Civil War became about. As fellow Americans we can respect our fallen brothers and sisters and what they fought for. We respect their drive and their passions but we also remind ourselves that slavery is never something to fight for, of course when the Civil War started that was not the major issue of the day.

That's a pretty epic save my dude, you must have been quite the enlightened gentlesir to think of it

And don't call me kid I don't want you to hit on me

That's a pretty epic save my dude, you must have been quite the enlightened gentlesir to think of it

And don't call me kid I don't want you to hit on me

Wew Kid...not this again.

I wonder what direction the responses will go this time.

An ebin one

@Dynamo Frokane, I am not sure what it is you are asking of me. If you are asking me how I feel about the video, then the best way to describe it would be that I do not feel as though my ethos is affronted or some how in danger. I still believe in equal opportunity, the mindset of being "color blind", prioritizing Americans first, and the so mocked "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", as well as any other element of my mantra I have displayed here and beyond into reality. I am not allegiant to anything beyond that. I do not belong to the Right, "Alt-Right", or Alt-Right, but I have been pushed far into that realm rather than my true place just right of center because the Left has gone so far in the opposite direction; the system of measurement has changed, not my actual position.

Charles Barkley is not just some convenient in to use as "proof I am not racist". I see no issue with anything the man said in this video and now he has come under attack by the same people who have attacked me because I do not believe in the United States being unequal or anyone having the nebulous "privilege" that is talked about.

@The Harbinger of Ferocity okay, thanks for your input, very well articulated.

But Cat-Man for the sake of this thread maybe you don't have to assert again that you aren't a racist or that some short sighted people on the left have called you a racist before, because as far as this thread goes I dont think one person (apart from maybe Ace of Hearts, but look what happened to her/him) has called you anything of the sort. We have both praised the people who frequent this thread as open minded individuals who can sit on either ends of the spectrum and have a discussion without name-calling. So as far as the people in this group lets the audience the benefit of the doubt, there is nothing about your beliefs you have to qualify, they all sound pretty moderate to me.

Thank you, @Dynamo Frokane. I was largely referring to the usual stereotype of "I have black friends, so that makes me not racist.", in which is often leveraged against anyone to the right of the Left. Because as we can clearly tell, Charles Barkley is absolutely a black white supremacist. Humor aside, I feel no real need to specifically defend myself, but I will pull from the lexicon as examples of why I am not when challenged as I have been before; this was not one of those times. Either way, I appreciate your understanding of my approach.

I suppose then that we might as well throw out the entirety of the Reconstruction Era as well, because to hell with reconciling the nation's wounds of war, the terrible losses of life, the reunion of North and South, and that the Confederates were not all diabolical, racist monsters whose only objective was to "Protect their property." from the Northerners. It is not as though we did this again later with others who fought the United States in much larger, more violent, horrific wars and had far more evil principalities that people to this very day harp on.

Let us just bury it all to maybe make a few people feel better about themselves.

I mean this, but unironically.

lol, just lol if you're honestly defending the Confederates in 2017

If by "hardcore" we are talking about them pandering to a minority of Americans

That is what I mean! Way to go town councilors!

Also I'll cross defending confederate statues off my conservative bingo sheet.

lol, just lol if you're honestly defending the Confederates in 2017

They always will.

To be clear, I'm sure you guys have many redeemable features!

But your ideas about how the world works are just laughably bad.

To be clear, I'm sure you guys have many redeemable features!

I admire your certainty.

@The Harbinger of Ferocity

Heya, fellow southerner chiming in here.

Some context first, on a personal level, I was very much raised in the history of the South. My family from my father's side has deep roots here in Virginia, particularly Petersburg, where they have donated artifacts to the battlefield museum out there (called "The Crater" near the military base Fort Lee). Hell, my great uncle was even able to recover slave receipts from when my family owned slaves. I have grown up hearing, and for awhile, believing in the narrative of "Robert E. Lee was the good southerner" or "It wasn't about slavery, it was about state rights, differences in economies, " ect. (Much like how you mentioned, Harbinger). But as I grew older, read more about the Civil War, and most importantly lived among its decendents, I can firmly say this now. My real, honest opinion on this alt left witch hunt:

The North should have utterly and totally annihilated the South, destroying every facet of our culture, our traditions, and our values.

Slavery was incredibly ingrained into our society, our culture, and how could it not? The South's entire economy was built upon slavery, period. Sure, that doesn't change the fact that there were plenty of other factors that played into the cause of the war, but that doesn't change the fact that we enslaved human beings.

And, in all reality, the war never really did end. An Armistice was signed, sure, and all military action slowly came to a halt, but the South hadn't really lost per say. That culture of racism did not end with the civil war, nor with the civil right movements of the following century. Still, to its core, the South remained unchanged. Those statues are certainly a great example of it. Robert E. Lee, for example, could have been an incredible man. Personally, I think his legend has been pretty hyped up over time, but even if we assume that every tall tale about his honor or sense of duty is to be believed, at the end of the day, he still fought for a government that genuinely believed that one human being was superior over another simply due to the color of their skin. One that went as far as enslaving human beings for the sake of cheap, disposable labor.

The cherry on top of all of this is that most of these statues are not history, at all. Many were put up in the 1920s and 30s as a means of protesting civil rights and being reminders of whose really in charge of the communities of the south. These men are traitors, plain and simple. Men who, regardless of their personal reasons, ultimately supported a regime that fully institutionalized slavery, on a mass, industrial scale.

However.

This does not mean we can't learn or remember our ancestors. This does not mean I should feel "ashamed" for what they did, and this does not mean I like the people or the reasoning behind taking down these statues. We should be taking them down not out of spite of one side, but as a way to finally move the fuck on, to recognize it's dark history and take a strong step in the right directing. We don't need statues put up by some racists assholes as a means of protest to remember the civil war. My hometown has a massive fucking crater to remember it.

It really is a damn shame that this was initiated by some SJW bullshit panic as we have far more important issues to deal with then some fucking racist pieces of stone and metal, but frankly, if people really have moved on from the past, accepted its mistakes, and truly want to pursue a future of equality, then nobody should give two shits about this stuff being torn down. I love Southern food, the accents, and the farm, small town lifestyle, but all these things do not need those statues to continue on. All of this started because those lazy fucks in the North went too easy on us, and failed to truly rip out the racist heart of the South.

So yeah.... Somehow as a Southerner I still found a way to blame the Yankees about something, even if its total annihilation. XD

(also sorry for any grammar errors/typos as I sort of just barfed this rant out on my phone.)

@Skepic



Its times like this, I'm proud to call you my wingmate.

I just wish you were a female quasi facist, german or russian military waifu in real life

@Skepic



Its times like this, I'm proud to call you my wingmate.

I just wish you were a female quasi facist, german or russian military waifu in real life

Just because I'm good at creating your waifus doesn't mean I am one.

you trap lovin piece of shit