@catchamber

Not supporting them at all beyond the fact they have just as much a right, perhaps even more a claim to than others who are similar political factions, in voicing their opinions and not being silenced for "thinking wrong", as it were.

Generation Identity's political ideology, as I have explained at length elsewhere in this topic, is neither Left nor Right and that they have their own motives and are essentially independent agents looking to push identitarianism as its own entity. Perhaps much in the same vein as a Green or Libertarian party, though with even more dubious claim to their ends. For whatever reason they wish to stand by being their own thing, which I note is not going to succeed well, at least in the United States. No less, to quote them on how they use "metapolitics":

WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THE TERM META-POLITICS?
As Generation Identity, we emphasize that we operate in the area of “meta-politics”. We believe that political change is not only possible in the parliaments and party politics, but also in cultural activities, public debates, the media and on the streets. We therefore act in a kind of “pre-political space” which determines discourse and thus serves as the basis for direct and concrete political decisions.

We strive for a normal, patriotic state of affairs and therefore our activity affects various areas of social life. With our actions and campaigns, we shape public debates about the issues of identity, mass immigration and border policies. We want to influence public opinion in a peaceful and democratic way and thus serve as an impetus for the electoral decisions, political awareness and the activity of the people.

WHERE DO YOU STAND POLITICALLY? ARE YOU ASSOCIATED WITH A POLITICAL PARTY? ARE YOU FINANCED?
We see ourselves as extra-parliamentarian opposition movement. We act on public opinion in the UK and in Europe and, through actions, campaigns and political education work, we address central grievances within the framework of identity and immigration policy.

In doing so, we always act independently of political parties. We offer a peaceful political space for action for young people so that they can channel their discontent about the state of their country in an effective but none- violent way. Therefore, we don’t fit into the pre-fabricated left-right political scale.

For us, patriotism and love of our native country are central societal values that don’t need to be forced into party political templates. The affirmation of our own identity is for us a self-evident basic consensus which does not require any party programs.

We finance ourselves through the donations of our supporters and the financial and idealistic support of our activists on the front line. If you also want to support patriotic youth work and strengthen young activists, you can do so with a small donation.

To the other point, they are seeming fair-weather friends to the "Alt-Right" and the Alt-Right by their account and are obviously opposed by the Left-wing on all ideological fronts alone in virtually all circumstances. To be direct, they are certainly no real allies or real authority, let alone power, to or for anyone but themselves.

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@catchamber

If you use a very atypical understand of modern conservatism, yes, they are certainly more classical conservatives in the sense of "valuing and preserving tradition", though I would not necessarily choose that term. It poses the same issue as calling modern leftists "liberals" when they are only socially and fiscally liberal. Either way, I suppose the point being that let us try not to mince words when we are attempting to be accurate about who or what they are. They are proposed apolitical identitarians and nationalists by their own claim, easier to go down that route and use it as the classifying mechanism than make it any more convoluted.

As for the "metapolitics" business, they are indeed using it in a way that while not wrong is certainly odd. I do think it has something, if not in large, to do with the narrative and audience they are trying to reach. However, I do not think it is so much a sales point as it is them attempting to state they are using politics, the various parties and peoples, to drive a goal home that isn't so much limited to the spectrum of Left-Right, Authority-Liberty biases. It is my understanding they are making a concentrated effort to be apolitical and appeal to playing outside the rules to meet their objectives.

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@catchamber

You are free to disagree as you are, but I would say the term they have invented, rather taken for themselves, is fairly accurate again in the use of language. Generation Identity seems to be not so much a political faction as they wish to be a concept, which is identitarianism. That is my interpretation of their "point" on it, that it is sort of an outside factor flowing into how people speak to or utilize politics. The validity of "metapolitics" is entirely questionable however, the reason I do not see Generation Identity surviving for long without hitching itself to a political faction and people pouring themselves in behind it.

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@catchamber

How many different ways need I phrase the same exact thing? Be honest now. Regardless, I am stating the idea is somewhat valid for how they appear to be using it and in relation to the way people speak about politics. These identitarians are not Left or Right, let alone Authoritarians or Liberals. That is the usual political spectrum. Their concept is devoid of an explicit political attachment. They could, in theory, attack from any political angle they choose, but are not. They want to shape something larger than just how people use the word "politics". As an added note, I am using their understanding of it to represent them as we are talking about them and their operations.

I note it is questionable because the term itself is already tainted by political expectations, hence this conversation at all in the first place. I am sure someone with a political science background, or is simply directly involved in the science of politics, has an official term for it that isn't as vague, ill defined, or nothing as "metapolitics" seems to be, but at the moment we lack that.

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@catchamber

I do not believe it to be a matter of their intelligence so much as defining themselves. They are identitiarians by their own claim and are obsessing over who and what they are; only seems fitting they wish to make a concept outside regular modern politics into "their own" and brand it. Really all they are doing is re-branding their philosophy because of its past connotations, that I think is the most telling thing here. I certainly think they are acting "outside politics", at least modern politics. Historically and verbatim? Absolutely a political ideology, but not one with a horse in the race in this century.

In a way, I can almost see them as a form of communist entity, one utterly devoted to their state and their people. I am legitimately curious where their members lay on the political spectrum by and large, at least their committed, die hard fellows. I imagine they are going to be Right-wing, but considering Generation Identity is a European product? Some oddness might be afoot. Would make for interesting talking points to see where they really hold their faith to outside identitarianism and assuming the Left-wing wasn't actually pushing them away.

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@The Harbinger of Ferocity How are they acting outside of modern politics?

You can tell because of the way it is.

*shrug*

Regarding Generation Identity (@ whoever I'm not keeping track)...frankly I hope they're not assholes. I was paying zero attention to them and then folks in here started screeching about 'em, and then a video popped up of Tommy Robinson reading a speech by that one guy from Generation Identity and I was like "Eh, I've literally never payed attention to any of these people but I guess the politics thread really wants me to be aware, I'll check it out." Then I watched it and most of it made me feel feelings. It was last weekend's rally at Speaker's Corner, if anyone feels like googling (and if you can find one that YT hasn't taken down yet). I was like "Huh. This guy is saying a lot of pretty awesome things and also there's a reserved (but telling) undercurrent of islamophobia in there, but MOST of this is awesome."

I bet they're assholes, as that reserved-but-telling undercurrent was pretty hard to ignore, and if I was them, I'd avoid all the controversial shit in this situation. They mostly avoided controversial stuff, this time, but if you're insisting that they're assholes elsewhere I guess I believe you. But I wish they weren't, because 95% of what was said in the video was fantastic and I don't want the last 5% to spoil it. Anyway. Wouldn't have watched if it wasn't for all you fine folks in here, so 90-95% thanks!

I bet they're assholes

No bet ;)

<Snipped quote by mdk>

No bet ;)

I mean, I want people from Mexico to be proud of their Mexican heritage, I want people from Brooklyn to be proud of their Brooklyn upbringing, I want people from Canada to die in a glacier, I want people from Germany to serve me beer. I have no issue whatsoever with British people being proud of Britain. I don't even have a problem with talking about what is, objectively, a migrant crisis in Europe. The situation is not normal, if you say "we want to have a conversation about this," I'm like okay, let's talk. But if the conversation includes "and we need to talk about whether or not Islam is allowed to exist," my eyebrow goes up. I'll talk it out, because you beat bad ideas with good ideas, not bullying, but.... in that situation, I'm thinking you're probably an asshole.

Is anyone stopping them from 'being proud' of being from Britain? If they want to get together and masturbate to the Union Jack that's fine (I guess?) but it is when they turn their particular notion of what Britain is into action against others that it starts getting problematic.

Personally I've always found Patriotism (and nationalism) to be silly. Im with Sammy J on this one, it really is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

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Pride in your country is like pride in a sports team. "We're great and you're not." There is no "we" because you yourself likely did nothing.

@mdk Do you mind linking the video in question? I tried looking one up, but the only one I found had terrible audio quality.

That's probably the one I was watching. Looked like a potato?

here's one

Is anyone stopping them from 'being proud' of being from Britain?

Well the speech linked above was mailed in because they guy was arrested and deported for trying to give the speech so.... yeah, kinda?

If they want to get together and masturbate to the Union Jack that's fine (I guess?) but it is when they turn their particular notion of what Britain is into action against others that it starts getting problematic.

Depends. Like I don't think speech constitutes 'action against others.' Enacting new policies can constitute 'action against others,' but I don't necessarily find that 'problematic.' I don't wanna give carte-blanche to start rolling over people's rights because hypothetically eventually someone might possibly do something bad.

Personally I've always found Patriotism (and nationalism) to be silly. Im with Sammy J on this one, it really is the last refuge of the scoundrel.

I know some other one-legged veterans who might take issue with that.

I know some other one-legged veterans who might take issue with that.

Sure me too. Alot of them had their legs blown off in the desert in a pointless war. I like to think they believed they were making the world a better place or that they were protecting their loved ones rather than for some half assed abstract love of Country.

Well the speech linked above was mailed in because they guy was arrested and deported for trying to give the speech so.... yeah, kinda?

"and we need to talk about whether or not Islam is allowed to exist"

So he wasn't arrested for being proud of Britain.

Lets conduct and experiment:
"I think Britain is pretty great"
Send that to the police and I'll inform you when the constabulary arrive.

Note: The above statement may not represent my actual opinion of Britain, particularly in a historical context.

Sure me too. Alot of them had their legs blown off in the desert in a pointless war. I like to think they believed they were making the world a better place or that they were protecting their loved ones rather than for some half assed abstract love of Country.

Well it wasn't half-assed when I started. Now it's like... three-quarter assed, or maybe more like 7/9, I'm not really good at calculating the percentages of my own ass.

So he wasn't arrested for being proud of Britain.

Naw the guy wasn't even british. But we've been over all that.

Lets conduct and experiment:
"I think Britain is pretty great"
Send that to the police and I'll inform you when the constabulary arrive.

I'm sooooooooooooo reporting this to Scotland Yard. You're DONE. Game over man, game over.