[quote=Dark Wind]

I was trying to get into some things about how there should be more men who also take leave. It would be nice to see men who are married to step up and take leave as well, so it isn't just women taking the hit to their careers. Also, I was trying to eventually get at issues like the second shift where women often work much more than men because they also do the brunt of the housework.[/quote]

Oh, okay, that makes sense. I wasn't sure if you were trying to say that was an advantage or disadvantage for women, or something else entirely. Turns out it was the something else category. I don't really have anything of value to add or respond with as far as this idea goes, so on to the next thing.

[quote]What is your take on gendered slurs, then? I'm interested.[/quote]

We've gotten to the point where "gendered" slurs in the current generation are not actually tied to gender in any meaningful way. Ever hung out with some Australian dudes? They call each other cunts all the time. It's not quite so common in most other parts of the world, but it's gotten to the point where calling a guy a cunt is just a normal thing. Calling a woman a cunt no longer means "you are a women and therefore awful," it means the same thing as it does to men, which as I see it is basically one large step above calling someone an asshole but meaning the same kinds of things. Calling someone a dick has nothing to do with their penis or lack thereof, it's a lesser form of the meanings found in asshole. Side note: it's funny how so many of our insults are based on body parts, but hey, whatever works. Pussy and bitch have both taken on meanings that have nothing to do with gender, pussy being an insulting version of coward (and the term stems from words talking about cats, animals often viewed as cowardly, with the female genital use coming into prominence much later) and bitch being used to refer to someone whining and complaining, such as the meaning seen in "quit your bitching." Slut and whore are the only ones that really have any grounds for being called gender-biased terms nowadays, but the fact that they're so easily used on men as well without seeming out of place shows that they're not truly directed to one gender alone, which is the one qualification I have for whether or not something is truly a "gendered" word or not.

See, my whole thing is that usage is what matters, not the supposed origin or supposed meanings of the terms. The fact that cunt started off as a slang term for vagina doesn't mean that using the term is a jab at women. The meanings of words change over time, so claiming their gender of origin makes them a "gendered slur" that is extra insulting for one gender is just stupid. Anyone who gets more offended by being called a bitch than they are about being called a dick is just a hyper-sensitive turd who needs to stop seeking sexism; when you look hard enough for something, you're gonna find it eventually. The only real argument you can try to make is that certain words are used more against a certain gender and that that somehow makes them sexist insults. If that were the case, you would have to include things like dick, prick, asshole, cocksucker, and douchebag (ironically, given the origin) as gendered slurs against men, because they're used against men more than against women. That's just stupid. They don't give any added insult to men in general that is not also intended when they're used against a women. The same [i]should[/i] be the case for the female side of things, and in reality it is, but the hyper-sensitive turds amongst feminists like to act as if being called a bitch is equivalent to calling a black guy a nigger, which is just ridiculous.

The only words that truly do have a real gender bias to them are slut and whore, because those are used mainly against women and intended as an insult due to gender role nonsense about how women should be chaste. I happen to agree that they shouldn't be used any more, but not because of this. I just think that trying to shame people for their sexual activity is dumb as hell, it's none of your business so don't stick your nose into it (unless you're into that and so are they, consenting adults and such). All of the other words touted as "gendered slurs" don't even come close to fitting the bill for what a truly gender-based slur would be, and slut and whore are really borderline cases. That is why I roll my eyes when people start talking about "gendered slurs," because they're not even a real issue and they should be expending their effort on complaining about things that actually matter.

[quote]Also, what you had to say on including the less than ideal forms of feminism within the movement, I agree. I'm trying to say that while those extremists may call themselves feminists and have a claim to the name, I feel they suck and are damaging what feminism actually stands for. Also, I do not find a problem with challenging the misguided and problematic opinions of those specific groups of pseudo-feminists.

My intention is that I'd rather not have people place sweeping and unfair generalizations to what I feel is a great movement. As is any other movement that seeks for other sorts of equality. It makes me angry to see terms such as "feminazi" thrown around so easily. Since when did the slaughtering of millions of people become a joke? It's also extremely offensive to even be compared to the Nazi regime, or have genuine feminists be called that word when they're actually fighting for equality. My frustration is primarily with judging an entire group of people with loud groups of people who do not speak for those who are genuine about what feminism is actually defined as.
[/quote]

Yep, they do suck and they are damaging. Those types of "feminists" are why I don't label myself as a feminist, because I refuse to be associated with those idiots in any way. I'd rather deal with the misunderstandings and arguments with actual feminists when I say I'm not a feminist but I'm all for equality than deal with people associating me with the extremist shitheads that have co-opted the movement.

I can understand you not wanting people to make sweeping generalizations, but unfortunately that's just how people work. See my previous post example about how vegans are perceived. Look at how religious extremists taint the public perception of their religion as a whole. People take what they see and they generalize, and when the toxic fucktards of a group are the ones who are loudest and most visible, that caused problems. It's shitty, sure, but there's nothing to be done about it but to continue fighting against these mistaken generalizations.

As for the term 'feminazi,' eh, it never seemed to me that it was to draw comparison to genocide. Seems more like it's supposed to be a reference to the fascist aspects of the Nazis, particularly the suppression of opposition through censorship and belligerently shouting down or punishing anyone who dares disagree with them. These are aspects you can see at work in those toxic sections of those who call themselves feminists, so it's not all that bad a term in and of itself. When it gets applied to reasonable feminists or when idiots actually start trying to make comparisons to genocide or Hitler, well, yeah, that's dumb and goes way too far. But for a term to refer to the shitty fake feminists who are actually after female dominance rather than equality, it's perfectly apt so long as the intention and definition are made clear.