I just pray that my scouts find the green place, from what I assume is most likely the north forest or southeast forest by the haven biome.

<Snipped quote by rezay>

Humans are good at killing each other, not necessarily good at doing war though. You have to remember, we think some things as obvious because we have hindsight and a wealth of knowledge available to us. Line formations was once considered revolutionary and pulling off maneuvers like hit and run, bait and switch or even flanking can be surprisingly difficult. Part of modern military training is specifically designed to teach soldiers how to do battle beyond "shoot that dude".

Also books can start to look like shit after one year of mishandling. Books being mistreated for a hundred years well... unless you have some very dedicated librarians and book keepers, you probably are going to be missing a lot of pages.

Yes, but the point is that once warfare was going on, many things would be quick to learn. Humans are good at problem-solving. Sure, such maneuvers can be difficult in execution, but they're still fairly obvious (all of them have been used since pre-history, we can't really say how hard it was for humans to learn them). It all is really dependent on other factors— like the efficiency of the command structures used.
Line formations were considered useful because of the limitations of technology at the time they were developed. When technology advanced and made them obsolete, they were abandoned in short order.

The US constitution has survived for 230 years. The dead sea scrolls for over 2,000 years. Not saying there are a ton of them laying around, but they'd be sorta like fossils. If by chance a room with some books in them was sealed off sufficiently from the elements, it's possible something survived. Again, should ask the GM about it.

@Dark CloudThe fabled green place :D

@rezay I sent like 25 ogres out as I think that gives us a slim chance of survivor's returning.

<Snipped quote by rezay>
modern warfare is extremely complex. Command and control, logistics, military formations, etc, are all apart of conducting large-scale military operations. But at this stage, warfare is nothing more than raiding and extremely small skirmishes.

I know, that's self-evident. Look, you're all forgetting that there's a shit-ton of distance between all of us. By the time we come into contact (and are in a position to attack one another), we're going to have the infrastructure and know-how to move supplies and personnel over substantial distance, as well as the population to field armies of thousands, maybe some tens of thousands. It's the application of that to warfare that will be difficult.

*And it might not even be that difficult. We'll likely have made our way there by defeating NPC factions that were in our way.

<Snipped quote by Dog>

I know, that's self-evident. Look, you're all forgetting that there's a shit-ton of distance between all of us. By the time we come into contact (and are in a position to attack one another), we're going to have the infrastructure and know-how to move supplies and personnel over substantial distance, as well as the population to field armies of thousands, maybe some tens of thousands. It's the application of that to warfare that will be difficult.

*And it might not even be that difficult. We'll likely have made our way there by defeating NPC factions that were in our way.

I think this statement is incorrect, as the ogres are smoof brain gang.

@Dark CloudI feel like ogres should have natural radiation resistance

*Side note: I'm thoroughly enjoying this discussion. Very thought-provoking and entertaining

<Snipped quote by rezay>

I think this statement is incorrect, as the ogres are smoof brain gang.

Well, maybe not the ogres then :p

*Their population is generally small as well, I'm becoming more and more skeptical about their chances against the other factions, late-game... I guess they'll have to hope they get lucky, hehe

<Snipped quote by ClocktowerEchos>

Yes, but the point is that once warfare was going on, many things would be quick to learn. Humans are good at problem-solving. Sure, such maneuvers can be difficult in execution, but they're still fairly obvious (all of them have been used since pre-history, we can't really say how hard it was for humans to learn them). It all is really dependent on other factors— like the efficiency of the command structures used.
Line formations were considered useful because of the limitations of technology at the time they were developed. When technology advanced and made them obsolete, they were abandoned in short order.

The US constitution has survived for 230 years. The dead sea scrolls for over 2,000 years. Not saying there are a ton of them laying around, but they'd be sorta like fossils. If by chance a room with some books in them was sealed off sufficiently from the elements, it's possible something survived. Again, should ask the GM about it.

I'd like to ask, for all of those 200 or 2000 years those documents have survived, how many more papers and books do you think we've lost to time? How many of them do we not eve realize we lost? Those documents are the exception, not the norm and if there's just going to be a magical fix that some how everything the players need is magically preserved in good condition in someone's basement, that kind of takes the fun out of things. Its fun to have to adapt and not have everything given to you on a platter in advance.

<Snipped quote by rezay>

I'd like to ask, for all of those 200 or 2000 years those documents have survived, how many more papers and books do you think we've lost to time? How many of them do we not eve realize we lost? Those documents are the exception, not the norm and if there's just going to be a magical fix that some how everything the players need is magically preserved in good condition in someone's basement, that kind of takes the fun out of things. Its fun to have to adapt and not have everything given to you on a platter in advance.

I know, and I did mention that. They're like fossils. Maybe there are less than 10 sites like this on the entire map. But it's something the GM might have considered, and I won't count it out, unless the GM confirms it's not something that can happen. I don't expect to find any such documents myself, except by some freak accident. There is no motive here except sheer speculation on what could possibly happen

*They might not even exist, the GM hasn't said anything about them. If they don't I'm cool with that.

*Not to mention that maybe there's only one such site on the map, and the only books that were preserved in it were trashy romance novels. The documents don't even need to be relevant to some project the player is working on, they would be completely random. To find such a document that helps you in a quest would be astronomically improbable. I don't know

@rezay Did anyone get the Office reference in my post?

@Dark Cloud... I've... Never watched the office...

@rezay I think the show isn't funny, I only watched like an episode. 5 minutes in and I'm like "This hasn't made me laugh, wtf is this the Big Bang Theory?"

@Dark CloudYeahhh, I'm not much for it either

Boy, so many questions. Many will need to be answered in-RP! Very exciting, can't wait for things to really get rolling. Can't say it too many times.

Glad I got reminded about the question of weapons technology, I forgot to ask the GM about that one.

*Thinking about it now, I'm going to add some more information to the NJ sheet. Stuff about agriculture, daily life, existing industries, and different sub-groups within the town. More deep lore stuff, will probably post it here once I'm done. Will probably end up retconning some of it in the near future as well, but it'll be interesting nonetheless

*Also, about the book/document stuff earlier, it's a big possibility that some were brought into the bunkers by the Old Jerichians. Perhaps there is a tiny library of pre-apocalypse texts. That sounds like something I'd need to hash out with the GM though. What do you think, @AdorableSaucer? :)
Also, I assume that there are wild versions of crops that humans cultivated before the apocalypse, ones which haven't changed much. I really don't want to be all nit-picky and go into too much detail about how things work, though, after a while it's just not fun anymore.

*Update: NJ sheet has been updated with proposed agricultural practices, glance over them if you wish, glorious GM @AdorableSaucer
Social hierarchy will be less potentially controversial

On that note, I'm taking suggestions for whatever the Jerichians call their famous (well, currently only to them) corn whiskey :P
I have no idea, but I think it would be a fun commodity for them. Maybe one day they'll be selling fire water to the ogres or something

OH! Another question regarding time, GM, what time of year is it currently in the RP (start of turn 2 I suppose)? Spring? Summer? Fall? Winter? It's going to be important for some story stuff I'm going to do in this next turn

.

Jesus, y'all got a lot of questions. Don't even know where to start with these, but I'll try...

Immediately regarding the gunpowder question - no, @rezay, I doubt the knowledge of how to make gunpowder has been passed down through time. It'll have to be rediscovered.

Regarding the Wastes: There are villages and traders out there who can help you transport your goods for you and help you turn a profit, like with the Silk Road. These will have to be discovered using actions.

A good deal of the questions you all have asked are solveable using actions and turns. With time, if the universe is in your favour, you will acquire all the goods you want and need, no problem. But allowing people to start with various goods wouldn't work all that well in a numbers game like this.

@ClocktowerEchos Pop growth is a loose, non-realistic mixture of immigration, natural growth and not as much die-off. Can't describe it better than so.

Gotta admit, you guys are asking lots of questions about stuff I had never thought of. Starting to think I may have overestimated my capabilities.

@rezay As much as I'd love to accept the agriculture thing, having livestock and workable agricultural lands which can grow all these crops would put you miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiles ahead of everyone else. The ruins that NJ lives in can hardly sustain any sort of farmland - few places outside of the Haven biome can.

For example, where did the seeds for these crops come from? Ruin biomes are leftovers of megacities and wouldn't have natural plains of wheat, corn and potatoes that hadn't already been snatched by mutants or roaches. What forests there are there wouldn't necessarily have fruit trees, and whatever animals live in these forests would have to be tamed and domesticated. Have they kept animals inside the bunker with them all these years? How have they not died from inbreeding, starvation or the Jerichians eating them all?

It's nice that you're motivated to write all this lore for your civ, but keep in mind that they only just recently came out of a bunker into a world that is virtually Mad Max/Fallout/Chernobyl/Megacity 1 mixed into one. Resources of all kinds, especially food and water, are rare as all hell and coveted by literally everyone.

@rezay Same with industries and, well, most things, really. I was already reluctant to accept the weapons cache you said NJ had managed to maintain since the Apocalypse.

Regarding the Wastes: There are villages and traders out there who can help you transport your goods for you and help you turn a profit, like with the Silk Road. These will have to be discovered using actions.

This doesn't make any sense either. The more hands something passes through, the more expensive it gets as people take their cut of the pie. These villages aren't just going to send money back because you're at the start of the road, you yourself would have to control them so that you could personally tax goods and supplies and stuff. Persia or the nomadic tribes never sent tax money back to China or Rome despite the road leading through their lands.

Gotta admit, you guys are asking lots of questions about stuff I had never thought of. Starting to think I may have overestimated my capabilities.

NRPers are a special breed. Nations actually tend to be extremely complicated things with lots of moving parts and small details. Who would have thought.