[quote=Raptorman] For the record that's a very bad example since technically Gandalf was one of the Maiar which was the type of celestial being directly below the Valar which is what Melkor was. They both were divineish beings [/quote] Meh, angel or not, he couldn't even handle a weakened Sauron. Forgotten realms or Elder scrolls might be better examples, either way that's a very one sided affair. Still per-exisitng magic for mortals would make for more exciting and fantastical events between the creeping evil that are the Ruinous powers and the mortal livestock.