Note in general before I start. I'm seeing a number of "It's against God" or "God says so" comments here, and I'd like to remind those that are that not everyone here in atheist. If that is your reasoning then so be it, I was one religious and I get it. But just be aware that if your goal is to convince others of your standpoint that arguments relating to God aren't going to get you anywhere. [quote=So Boerd] That does not explain the inconsistency in your philosopy. Here, use my take on the examples as an example of ideological consistency.Suicidal mother: Is bad because the mother is causing enormous life shattering pain.Bigot: Is bad as the bigot inflicts pain to make himself feel better.Relationship: Unlike the family, all parties are entered by choice and as such may leave by choice. You cannot simply decide one day you are not my biological parent. The incredibly strong bond between parent and child is so much stronger. I can get another girlfriend, but I only get one mother. [/quote] Like Brovo already highlighted, you can also find other suitable's for a parent relationship. He himself mentioned he would not be phased at all if his mother died, and although I'm no where close to that I'm also at a position where it would hurt to lose my parents but it would not be life shattering. Being boldly honest the biggest change for me would be losing the support of a parent and largely being stuck in the world on my own. I would hurt a bit from the loss of my parent, but they also are not anywhere close to the strongest bonds/relationships I made with people in my lifetime. At most I'd need a month or two to recover and I'd probably be out there again, and if this was a case of suicide such pain would of lessened, because at least then it's not a case of they died unfairly to something they didn't deserve or want, it was something they wanted and made the conscious choice to do. They're happier dead and honestly that would help me rest more easy with it being something they wanted. And in one last reference to the comparison above in regards to relationships. To this day I find myself hurting at times from the situation I detailed above, but I still fully admit I was selfish for at any moment (even if for only 2 days) I made it drag on any longer than the other person wanted. But in the end, their choice, they wanted to leave. Who honestly am I to tell them they can or cannot? I will grant you this, I acknowledge that me and Brovo are part of a minority in how we feel to our parents. Most people have very strong/close bonds to their parents, ones are are unarguably stronger than most if any other relationship they have in their life. So we are coming at this from a different view point (double in that you're saying God's against it, but me and Brovo are also both atheists). However in response I do ask this, if you had a friend who was terminally ill, not well and honestly wanted to end their suffering and die peacefully would you let them? If yes why is a family member any different? Don't you want happiness for them like your friend? If no, then we're a bit more of a disagreement here. One I'm still open to try debating if you wish, but one where it may also be wise to simply say to agree to disagree. [quote=ActRaiserTheReturned]I can say that After being given to five strangers for gang bang "fun" at the age of seven, being seduced and used in broad daylight by a teenage boy at around the same age, then being forced to watch as the teenager who seduced my much younger mind is literally chopped to death in front of me with an axe, that I would not, even as I live now in my current state of uncertainty, look into the future and see that I wasn't there.I"ve had moments of depression.[/quote] Due to the nature of internet text and it's lack of tone of voice and real-time clarification I'm having trouble telling if this is hypothetical or examples you've actually faced. Either way it all depends on the individual though, some people react to/handle things better than others. If you in fact went through this yourself then you posses an incredibly strong will and strive to push forward and it's one I applaud you for. But it is not a strong will that everyone will have, some people would simply snap and be broken. It could destroy them and make them unable to enjoy life. [quote=ActRaiserTheReturned]I have some bizarre posts of mine where I'm not feeling too good, and I say weird, Emo Gothic bullshit things. I've had moments in my life where I just wished I wasn't alive anymore. [/quote] We've all had those moments. [quote=So Boerd]MagicMagnum was the original target and iirc, he said suicide was alright but racial slurs were not, and I think we can all agree that is silly.[/quote] Ah, I can see where we may of had a miss-communication, or better yet where I may not of clarified well enough. Forgive me, despite my tendency to go on and on with things at times I'm still not the best at always articulating or getting my point or thinking across. I was trying to argue that suicide was an individual choice, while racial slurs were an attack on another person. And say an attack on an idea for the purpose of coming to a better consensus on a topic, but an attack whose only purpose is harm. Suicide is not done for the sake of harming others (and if it ever is... then that person is mentally unstable and I would agree needs help, not to be allowed to kill themselves). Note however, is this is all assuming it's being using in meanings such as "Lol! You disgusting faggot!". If this is more how they've been adapted to simple words (ex: Nigga, among two black people) this argument is abolished entirely. In the end though I'm not trying to argue anything like racial slurs are worse than suicide... But this was probably a bad example/comparison for us to use to begin with as it was bound to lead to confusion, derailment, etc. I was simply trying to highlight/address that one is a conscious choice over one's self, life and body and the other is a choice with the intention of harm on another.