Nemesis: Star Wars meets Hunt for Red October

[Pepperm1nts]

And now you know why I avoid RPs you're in.

[gorgenmast]

So the issue I've been able to gather is that Willy and Pepper's ships fill an extremely similar niche. I don't think that anyone copied ideas from one another, but I think it makes more sense from a lore point of view and it's ideal in terms of gameplay if we didn't have two stealth ships with very powerful primary armaments. Therefore, I'm going to ask one of you to focus more on one aspect than another to generate some diversity. Willy, if I give you your WAP gun, would you tone down the stealth on the basis of the experimental WAP armament taking so much energy that it diminishes its ability to power a stealth drive?

Brb, working on the IC again.

[Pepperm1nts]

I'll be willing to drop the Vorqhul stealth drive (which is the most advanced drive there is) and let you have it, if you let me have the gun. I'll settle for regular human stealth capabilities. We need to be different somehow.

EDIT: PS, it doesn't look like Flagg is sticking around. Here's hoping I'm wrong, but he started his own RP and hasn't come around in a while.

[Willy Vereb]

So the issue I've been able to gather is that Willy and Pepper's ships fill an extremely similar niche. I don't think that anyone copied ideas from one another, but I think it makes more sense from a lore point of view and it's ideal in terms of gameplay if we didn't have two stealth ships with very powerful primary armaments. Therefore, I'm going to ask one of you to focus more on one aspect than another to generate some diversity. Willy, if I give you your WAP gun, would you tone down the stealth on the basis of the experimental WAP armament taking so much energy that it diminishes its ability to power a stealth drive?

Brb, working on the IC again.

@gorgenmast

Wouldn't we need an OOC first?

Anyways, I think of four 400mm spinal mounted guns. WAP capability stays but projectiles are still in the prototype stage and on short supply. The main role of the guns would be long range interception along with anti-ship support rather than just being a long range sniper.
It also sports no less than 180 VLS as it's a frigate thus area denial and searching for threats is its main job.

Actually my newer concept and Peppermint's stealth ship have nothing in common save for the fact it has a big gun. I am fine with him having THE big gun, really. The problem is that Pepper is stubborn at monopolizing any spinal mounted weapon which is flatly ridiculous.

I'll be willing to drop the Vorqhul stealth drive (which is the most advanced drive there is) and let you have it, if you let me have the gun. I'll settle for regular human stealth capabilities. We need to be different somehow.

EDIT: PS, it doesn't look like Flagg is sticking around. Here's hoping I'm wrong, but he started his own RP and hasn't come around in a while.

@Pepperm1nts

Question. How many kinds of munition you planned with it yet?
I am over a dozen and still counting. Spinal mounted guns have so many uses once you get past relying exclusively on dumb slugs.
What kind of use you thought of your spinal gun, in comparison?

[Pepperm1nts]

I want the spinal gun to be unique to my ship because that is what sets it apart from the rest, and what makes it like a submarine (aside from its stealth capabilities). It's the ship's identity; the defining characteristic that makes it different from the other player ships. And considering I had my WIP sheet up before yours, I think I ought to have the leverage here. I shouldn't be the one giving it up.

I already proposed a compromise, too. I get the spinal gun, and you get the stealth drive. Your ship would be the only ship with a Vorqhul stealth drive (which you can define however you want, if you don't want the electromagnetic function), and that would be your ship's defining characteristic. Right now, you are trying to have both, essentially. Entirely at my expense, too, so I don't know why you're calling me stubborn.

[gorgenmast]

Four WAP guns is excessive, especially coupled with stealth capabilities. A projectile capable of crossing a solar system in a minute flat already is a substantial advantage on its own. To request four with stealth capacity strikes me as too powerful for any one vessel.

Also, IC thread is up.

[Willy Vereb]

Four WAP guns is excessive, especially coupled with stealth capabilities. A projectile capable of crossing a solar system in a minute flat already is a substantial advantage on its own. To request four with stealth capacity strikes me as too powerful for any one vessel.

Also, IC thread is up.

@gorgenmast

They went down in caliber substantially. Previously it was two 1200mm guns, now four 400mm.
Projectile weight went from 45 tons each to 3-4 tons each. Even if I double the guns the firepower drops by at least 5 times.

The WAP is still prototype and short on supply and the gun's main job changed to fire support and long range interception with regular projectiles than long range sniping. Range-wise I claimed 30+ AU for them which isn't even third the diameter of the Solar System and said I can easily tone them down. Effective firing range in space combat against a ship knowing my location is 1-2 AU or 1 second of travel at best anyways.

Also I don't have stealth. At least not in the idea I proposed.
Though Peppermints is still adamant on being special for having a spinal mounted gun. So it's up to you.
I perhaps can make a stealth ship alternative without spinal gun but he sticks to the idea his ship is a submarine in style when without stealth it's anything but that.

I want the spinal gun to be unique to my ship because that is what sets it apart from the rest, and what makes it like a submarine (aside from its stealth capabilities). It's the ship's identity; the defining characteristic that makes it different from the other player ships. And considering I had my WIP sheet up before yours, I think I ought to have the leverage here. I shouldn't be the one giving it up.

I already proposed a compromise, too. I get the spinal gun, and you get the stealth drive. Your ship would be the only ship with a Vorqhul stealth drive (which you can define however you want, if you don't want the electromagnetic function), and that would be your ship's defining characteristic. Right now, you are trying to have both, essentially. Entirely at my expense, too, so I don't know why you're calling me stubborn.

@Pepperm1nts

I call you stubborn because that's what you provide me examples of. Really, that doesn't need me spell out why.
You think having a spinal gun makes you unique and nobody should have it.
What's next? People calling dibs on lasers?
It's almost as bad as if I would say my ship has black, white and gray colors thus nobody else's ship can have ANY of these.

You almost had a point before with comparing your ships to my old one from Rapere Solis but now?
You're just providing me examples to not take you seriously.

[Pepperm1nts]

You came waltzing in and pretty much stole every-fucking-thing about my idea. I don't care if it was intentional or not, but you did. Exactly the same armament, same role, same experimental status. Even the words you used to describe its role were the same. Hell, you even downgraded your ship to a frigate, as if it wasn't already similar enough to mine. No, you had to make it the same ship type too. What am I supposed to do? Sit here and just let you take my idea?

You have not taken a thing Gorgenmast has said without trying to argue against it, and I'm the stubborn one? I'm trying to keep you from waltzing in and just depriving me of my role in the RP. And don't get me wrong, I hate that I have to whine. I really do - I'd rather not. But I have to because the alternative is just sitting here and letting you fuck me over. So no, I'm not doing that. Sorry.

I am trying to make a compromise and you keep evading it. So don't call me fucking stubborn.

And for the record, my ship would still have stealth capabilities, just not Vorqhul in origin. So its submarine-like role would still be a thing.

EDIT: I had a point before and I still do. You just keep evading it because you don't want to compromise. But yeah, I'm the stubborn one.

[Willy Vereb]

You came waltzing in and pretty much stole every-fucking-thing about my idea. I don't care if it was intentional or not, but you did. Exactly the same armament, same role, same experimental status. Even the words you used to describe its role were the same. Hell, you even downgraded your ship to a frigate, as if it wasn't already similar enough to mine. No, you had to make it the same ship type too. What am I supposed to do? Sit here and just let you take my idea?

You have not taken a thing Gorgenmast has said without trying to argue against it, and I'm the stubborn one? I'm trying to keep you from waltzing in and just depriving me of my role in the RP. And don't get me wrong, I hate that I have to whine. I really do - I'd rather not. But I have to because the alternative is just sitting here and letting you fuck me over. So no, I'm not doing that. Sorry.

I am trying to make a compromise and you keep evading it. So don't call me fucking stubborn.

And for the record, my ship would still have stealth capabilities, just not Vorqhul in origin. So its submarine-like role would still be a thing.

EDIT: I had a point before and I still do. You just keep evading it because you don't want to compromise. But yeah, I'm the stubborn one.

@Pepperm1nts

You may wish to read things over, man. Your memory seems to have some very convenient holes in it.
Yeah, you stick to the idea that nobody else should have spinal mounted weapons because you do. Real flexible.
Mind the fact I was the only one offering an alternative. You just asked the GM to keep the spinal gun rather than the stealth when you couldn't have both because you want the former more.

And then:

And for the record, my ship would still have stealth capabilities, just not Vorqhul in origin. So its submarine-like role would still be a thing.

Made an ass out of yourself and went back on even that.
Seriously, you won't help your case at all.
I don't wish to trample on your feelings but if anyone lacks sense of cooperation, it's you.

[Pepperm1nts]

What in the ever living fuck are you talking about?

1) My ship is supposed to be unique because of the spinal gun. So yeah, I want it to be the only player ship with it. We need variety, and every ship should fill a unique role. I am not trying to be flexible about that.

2) You never offered an alternative. You just kept telling me your ship was different even though it wasn't. You said a few times that if it bothered me so much you'd change your idea, but you have yet to do that.

3) I wasn't talking to Gorgenmast when I made the compromise. I was talking to you. I get the gun, you get the advanced stealth. Because yes, I want the gun more. Because as I have mentioned a million fucking times now, it's what defines my ship and what gives it its unique role, which you seem adamant on wanting to steal.

4) The last bit of your post makes no fucking sense. I never said I was totally giving up stealth. I said I was giving up the Vorqhul stealth drive and letting you have it. I was still going to keep regular, human stealth capabilities and I was very clear about it. You just have shitty reading comprehension.

[Willy Vereb]

What in the ever living fuck are you talking about?

1) My ship is supposed to be unique because of the spinal gun. So yeah, I want it to be the only player ship with it. We need variety, and every ship should fill a unique role. I am not trying to be flexible about that.

2) You never offered an alternative. You just kept telling me your ship was different even though it wasn't. You said a few times that if it bothered me so much you'd change your idea, but you have yet to do that.

3) I wasn't talking to Gorgenmast when I made the compromise. I was talking to you. I get the gun, you get the advanced stealth. Because yes, I want the gun more. Because as I have mentioned a million fucking times now, it's what defines my ship and what gives it its unique role, which you seem adamant on wanting to steal.

4) The last bit of your post makes no fucking sense. I never said I was totally giving up stealth. I said I was giving up the Vorqhul stealth drive and letting you have it. I was still going to keep regular, human stealth capabilities and I was very clear about it. You just have shitty reading comprehension.

@Pepperm1nts

Seriously, in spite of saying you don't like dragging down threads with arguments you did a fine job beefing this from 2 pages to slowly approaching the end of the fourth.
I humor you for a last time but regardless of what do you reply I don't wish to continue this debacle any longer. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong. Let it end.

But since I bothered to reply may as well respond to your points. Feel free to respond back even though I won't say anything more about this topic. Don't wish to lead you to the false belief I just threw a cheap shot to get the last word in.
So let's get to it:

1.) You seriously lack creativity if you think owning a spinal gun makes you oh so unique. What's next, you cry to GMs to make your character be the only one with a mustache? How petty you can be?

2.) Yeah, see my above point. If you think a stealth craft with a single larger spinal railgun is the same as an area denial specialized frigate with 4 smaller caliber spinal guns then I have nothing else to say in the topic. You just don't get it. A weapon system alone doesn't neccessarily define the role of the ship. This is like saying that since the Iowa and the Fletcher both have turreted guns they must have the same role, even though the former is a battleship while the later is a destroyer.

3.) Except the GM explicitly told you to either chose the stealth or the spinal gun. And your response went directly after his. Thus you responded to him. Nothing implied otherwise.

4.) Except you can't. The GM told you this yet you are adamant to keep both. Seriously if you want submarines in space, take the cloak and add torpedo launchers. There! You are the closest you can ever be to a submarine-like spacecraft.

Pardon if my wording occasionally have an edge towards you. But well, your attitude and lack of understanding doesn't provoke anything nice from me.

[Pepperm1nts]

1.) You seriously lack creativity if you think owning a spinal gun makes you oh so unique. What's next, you cry to GMs to make your character be the only one with a mustache? How petty you can be?

Oh my god.

WE NEED VARIETY. We need our ships to be unique. I am not claiming the railgun is the epitome of fucking creativity. But I want it to be unique to my ship SO IT SETS IT APART FROM THE REST. How fucking hard is that to understand? Very, apparently. Holy shit.

3.) Except the GM explicitly told you to either chose the stealth or the spinal gun. And your response went directly after his. Thus you responded to him. Nothing implied otherwise.

He was talking to you. Once again you prove you can't read properly. Well done.

And no, I wasn't replying to him. You know why? Because I fucking said so. I am telling you right now, I was talking to you. Not to mention if you read the post you could very easily tell I was talking to you based on the context of the post. But again, your reading comprehension sucks.

4.) Except you can't. The GM told you this yet you are adamant to keep both. Seriously if you want submarines in space, take the cloak and add torpedo launchers. There! You are the closest you can ever be to a submarine-like spacecraft.

HE WAS TALKING TO YOU.

But yeah, keep evading the issue. I'm the stubborn one. I am not proud of having to make a big deal about this, but shit, you have me beat with the ol' "I'm going to plug my ears and go lalalala" tactic.