Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[ErsatzEmperor]

In the end of the day, we can't pretend that video games are anything but products. They are produced by autonomous companies, usually in line with market trends, for an audience. If you don't like a game, regardless of how half baked your reasoning or the polical beliefs that lead you there, you have the right not to buy it. Vote with your wallet. It clearly wasn't made with you in mind, and they'll probably survive without your money. There's no such thing as a taste consensus.

[SleepingSilence]

In the end of the day, we can't pretend that video games are anything but products. They are produced by autonomous companies, usually in line with market trends, for an audience. If you don't like a game, regardless of how half baked your reasoning or the polical beliefs that lead you there, you have the right not to buy it. Vote with your wallet. It clearly wasn't made with you in mind, and they'll probably survive without your money. There's no such thing as a taste consensus.

@ErsatzEmperor

This does have very little to do with politics, but then again so does a lot of things here. So I comment anyway.

I just want to clarify, you can criticize a company for being purposefully controversial or greedy business practices. Fans of the medium, need to criticize the things they love if they want it to improve. Fan backlash is sometimes necessary and sometimes works quite effectively. Game related products are no exception.

The problem comes in when people that never played games and never will, boycott things they'd never would've bought in the first place, or started to make comments about the people -playing- the games. When they had shit to do with their production...It's just disingenuous political activism.

But yes, that's a step in the right direction more often than not.

[The Harbinger of Ferocity]

<Snipped quote by The Harbinger of Ferocity>

Interesting tidbit (or not interesting, shut up), my dad takes that bike route all the time, and was there this afternoon just minutes before the attack. Y'all might've had to deal with a very extremely upset mdk if the timing was just a bit different. Kinda surreal.

@mdk

I am pleased by know your father managed to not be there for that act of terror by our nation's enemies. Having those sort of close calls, even by a day, are a sobering reality. I am likewise thankful that you keep in contact with him enough to know such a detail: few do with family as it is now.

[Dolerman]

@SleepingSilence I was specifically referring to the conservative christian movement in MDK's post about them calling pokemon satanic and that Harry Potter encouraged witchcraft, I'm not saying that nobody on the left has ever criticized a video game, I'm plenty aware of all that. But the vast majority of the anti-video game movement in the 90s was a conservative movement there is little debate.

Next time you respond to my responses, try and keep an eye on the context.

[Dolerman]

The problem comes in when people that never played games and never will, boycott things they'd never would've bought in the first place, or started to make comments about the people -playing- the games. When they had shit to do with their production...It's just disingenuous political activism.

@SleepingSilence

Yes I agree, when alt right shitheads say that there is a double standard that you can kill nazis in games but not communists, or that you will never be put in a situation where you kill non-white enemies. They are talking bollocks because they haven't played games.

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane I'm not saying you were. But the conversation was about Christians thinking everything under the sun was evil. And the common thread of them, was they were apart of the older generation. Is my point. I would place doubt that it was actually political. Just zealots and fear mongers. Which existed on both sides even back then.

[Dolerman]

@Dynamo Frokane I'm not saying you were. But the conversation was about Christians thinking everything under the sun was evil.

@SleepingSilence

What are you talking about? No one said that?

And the common thread of them, was they were apart of the older generation. Is my point. I would place doubt that it was actually political. Just zealots and fear mongers. Which existed on both sides even back then.

@SleepingSilence

In the time I'm referring to, yes they were old, yes they were religious and yes they were conservative. This is not controversial. And Jack Thompson was literally a Right Wing, Born Again Christian, Anti-Gay Attorney who made a career out of attacking GTA and blamed every tragedy all the way up until 2008 on video games. He was also heavily involved making testiominals to the florida bar, making false statements to tribunals, lobbying elected officials and constantly appearing on TV news shows to demonize video games, so yes I think it got pretty damn political.

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane Not literal. A man who uses so many memes should tell when something is a metaphor...I did just go over disingenuous things.

<.<

"Back in my hard-core churchin' days, I heard many condemnations of Pokemon as satanism."

Referring to this. Assuming this is a true story, because a shit ton of people who never were raised in overly religious lifestyle make up stories all the time online. Not making an assumption, just stating a fact.

My point was, these jackasses were all old farts who couldn't use Microsoft Excel (or hell, a computer) to save their lives.

I'm not spending time, elaborating such an obvious observation. -.-

It's not the 90's, but long before gamergate and shit. Hillary clinton was making shit like this in 2005.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_Entertai…

I can't imagine she had a positive outlook in the 90's either.

jackthompson.org/archives/email_conve…

I'm sorry but reading up on this guy, blaming shooting on video games. Mirrors SJW bullshit to a tee. If he ever did register republican it's clearly in name only. He's just a zealot.

Edit: Google sucks at searching things.

[Dolerman]

@SleepingSilence

Im genuinely confused what you are trying to state here, all 3 of those Jack Thompsons are different people, that second one is a british politician who died in 2011 and had nothing to do with video games. And that political donation jack thompson is clearly a different guy because the addresses don't add up.

Only the final link is jack thompson (i think) cause it mentions video games, and you can call it SJW but this guy was around long before that term was popularised and there are many MANY right wingers who are essentially social justice warriors when it comes to preserving their conservative values. The Jack Thompson I am talking about is very very right wing.

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane You skimmed over the whole complete other part about leftist hillary clinton and the fact it's obvious my point is valid.

But, okay maybe I fucked up. It happens. (I just took your word for it and edited it out, to be fair. It doesnt take away my main point.) Blame google if that's the case. <.< I did say I didn't want to spend time elaborating on such an obvious point. It's hard to find shit when they hide and bury things or people they don't like...

I saw people talking in a thread about him supporting democrats and dead links about him supporting/backing liberal mayors. It's old shit. So I tried looking for newer things. Google sucks. And again, his actions reflect religious extremism over anything else.

complex.com/pop-culture/2014/05/10-em…

The Dance Dance Revolution Killer

Politician: Chris Murphy
Office: U.S. Senator from Connecticut
Political affiliation: Democrat
Quote: "I think there's a question as to whether he would have driven in his mother's car in the first place if he didn't have access to a weapon that he saw in video games that gave him a false sense of courage about what he could do that day."
Date: 2013

Whenever there's a tragedy, people will find a way to blame video games. It's an integral part of youth culture, and that makes it an easy target. When the Sandy Hook tragedy traumatized the nation last year, politicians like Chris Murphy latched onto violent video games as the culprit, with little grounding or evidence. As it turned out, Adam Lanza was obsessed with Dance Dance Revolution - probably not the smoking gun that anti-gaming activists were looking for. But hey, Chris - you keep doing you. Don't let the facts get in the way of your opinions.

Beware of Vulnerable, Young Men!

Politician: Joe Lieberman
Office: Former U.S. Senator from Connecticut
Political affiliation: Independent
Quote: "The violence in the entertainment culture, particularly with the extraordinary realism to video games and movies now, does cause vulnerable young men, particularly, to be more violent."
Date: 2012

When politicians don't have the facts and studies to back up their principles, never fear - they can always pull them directly from their asses. Lieberman claims that there is a link between video games and violence, but long-term studies continue to be inconclusive, and the links are non-existent or weak at best. Owning a virtual gun continues to be less dangerous than owning a real gun. Joe, instead of kicking on video games, why not talk about gun control and education? Or the stigma of mental health issues? Or economic disparity? Nah, those problems are multi-faceted and complex. Why have the difficult conversations when you can have the easy ones?

Watch Out for the Nintendos!

Politician: Newt Gingrich
Office: Former U.S. Speaker of the House, Former U.S. Presidential Candidate
Political affiliation: Republican
Quote: "And let us say to Hollywood, and let us say to the Nintendos and the other games, if you are going to be sick, we are going to find a way to protect this country from you."
Date: 1999

Newt Gingrich wants to protect Americans from video games, but maybe we should be protecting Americans from Newt. Our noble protector is dogged by ethics violations, and he has shown little concern for his 'loved' ones - he divorced his first wife Jackie while she was undergoing cancer treatment, and he cheated on his second wife Marianne before divorcing her too - soon after she was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis. That's pretty "sick," Newt. Also it's 'Nintendo,' not 'Nintendos.' Was Nintendo, of all the gaming companies, the primary target of your wrath? Thank you protecting us from turtle stomping plumbers, sword wielding elves, and collectible pet monsters. We all sleep easier.

Notice a similarity? It's the old.

[Andreyich]

<Snipped quote by Andreyich>

You mean a game set in an alternate reality where nazi's pilot armored mechas and have cyborg dogs patrolling their super castle isn't entirely accurate? Someone better alert the gaming authorities before it gets out of hand. Next thing you know the protagonist is going to have regenerating health after a few seconds after being shot, totally unrealistic.

Because if we know one thing about the wolfenstien series, they always strive for historical realism.

@Dynamo Frokane

That's a really cool way to avoid the point.

[Crimson Paladin]

On the topic of Wolfenstein II and Far Cry 5, here's my more detailed take on it.

Far Cry 5's reaction seemed to come about as a reaction to the title art, before the details of the game's plot had been unveiled. It was a premature reaction for sure, and naysayers should've waited until learning about the game's actual premise before deciding whether or not they have a problem with it. I personally think the most amusing about this fiasco, however, is when the NeoGAF crowd and their ilk got upset and lost interest in the game upon learning that the antagonists weren't simply white midwestern bible thumpers like everyone had prematurely assumed. I don't know if people continued to ignorantly complain about it after the game's premise was elaborated on, but if they did, that's pretty dumb of them.

Wolfenstein II's marketing was perhaps in both poor taste given the tensions of the recent election and, in my opinion, a poorly conceived attempt to be hip and current, but the anti-SJW crowd shouldn't have reached so far to take offense when none was intended. The media misrepresented the outrage to make it seem like the naysayers were objecting to the killing of Nazis, rather than the perception that they were being wrongfully equated to Nazis, but it doesn't excuse getting upset over what should've been nothing.

[SleepingSilence]

On the topic of Wolfenstein II and Far Cry 5, here's my more detailed take on it.

Far Cry 5's reaction seemed to come about as a reaction to the title art, before the details of the game's plot had been unveiled. It was a premature reaction for sure, and naysayers should've waited until learning about the game's actual premise before deciding whether or not they have a problem with it. I personally think the most amusing about this fiasco, however, is when the NeoGAF crowd and their ilk got upset and lost interest in the game upon learning that the antagonists weren't simply white midwestern bible thumpers like everyone had prematurely assumed. I don't know if people continued to ignorantly complain about it after the game's premise was elaborated on, but if they did, that's pretty dumb of them.

Wolfenstein II's marketing was probably in both poor taste given the tensions of the recent election and, in my opinion, a poorly conceived attempt to be hip and current, but the anti-SJW crowd shouldn't have reached so far to take offense when none was intended. The media misrepresented the outrage to make it seem like the naysayers were objecting to the killing of Nazis, rather than the perception that they were being wrongfully equated to Nazis, but it doesn't excuse getting upset over what should've have been nothing.

@Crimson Paladin

I don't know how Wolfenstein 2 marketed. (Seems to be purposely aiming for the same pandering as "the golden circle" was, just doing a quick search.)

But Far Cry putting their villain on their box was bitched about in 4 too and it was just as stupid then...Sure, it's generic to have 'evil rednecks' but if they can make good villains out of them, who the fuck cares.

[Crimson Paladin]

As far as I can tell, the outrage over Wolfenstein II was started when the advertising team used the ad slogans "Make America Nazi Free Again" and "Not My America" on Twitter. Somehow the anti-SJW crowd interpreted it to equating them with Nazis.

[Dolerman]

But Far Cry putting their villain on their box was bitched about in 4 too and it was just as stupid then...Sure, it's generic to have 'evil rednecks' but if they can make good villains out of them, who the fuck cares.

@SleepingSilence

Its not even generic, maybe for horror movies but I cant think of many video games where you are plowing down hillbillies in the deep south.

[Dolerman]

That's a really cool way to avoid the point.

@Andreyich

You were saying that wolfenstein was historically inaccurate, if you already know what kind of fantastical silly elements are in the series then it wasn't much of a point to begin with.

[SleepingSilence]

@Crimson PaladinIt just looks like a bad pun to me, sure mildly political. But it annoys me that people actually will whine and be hyper sensitive about stuff like that, regardless of side. I guess them purposefully tying it to real life events and the hysteria of everyone who disagrees with me equals nazi and fist. Misses the point, because in the real world it's a genuine problem.

But it's always been a video game, ABOUT killing -not- nazi's This is not shocking, nor worth raging about. <.<

@Dynamo Frokane There's always been kind of a "don't fuck with hillbillies" thing in movies, true usually thriller or horror movies, but it's elsewhere too. Or the texas/cowboy or corrupt big wig hick stereotype.

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/C…

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/H…

But again, I say let them eat cake. If it's a good product. That's really all that should matter.

[Andreyich]

<Snipped quote by Andreyich>

You were saying that wolfenstein was historically inaccurate, if you already know what kind of fantastical silly elements are in the series then it wasn't much of a point to begin with.

@Dynamo Frokane

The stuff of the nazis was quite long before Wolfenstein's point of divergence. Additionally, it adds nothing game-play wise and nothing story-wise either, providing falsehoods about nazi relations to Christianity. Though, I reckon shoehorning in falsehoods is no biggie to you.

[Dolerman]

<Snipped quote by Dynamo Frokane>
The stuff of the nazis was quite long before Wolfenstein's point of divergence. Additionally, it adds nothing game-play wise and nothing story-wise either, providing falsehoods about nazi relations to Christianity. Though, I reckon shoehorning in falsehoods is no biggie to you.

@Andreyich

You're saying the same thing, a game with nazi cyborg dogs is representing nazi relations to christianity that aren't accurate to history. Do you know what an alternative fictional universe is or are you shoehorning in some blissful ignorance to make your 'point' stick better?

[Dolerman]

@Crimson PaladinIt just looks like a bad pun to me, sure mildly political. But it annoys me that people actually will whine and be hyper sensitive about stuff like that, regardless of side. I guess them purposefully tying it to real life events and the hysteria of everyone who disagrees with me equals nazi and fist. Misses the point, because in the real world it's a genuine problem.

But it's always been a video game, ABOUT killing -not- nazi's This is not shocking, nor worth raging about. <.<

@Dynamo Frokane There's always been kind of a "don't fuck with hillbillies" thing in movies, true usually thriller or horror movies, but it's elsewhere too. Or the texas/cowboy or corrupt big wig hick stereotype.

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/C…

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/H…

But again, I say let them eat cake. If it's a good product. That's really all that should matter.

@SleepingSilence

I didnt say it didnt exist, I'm saying its minimal. There are about 7 examples each on both of those trope pages for video games, and most of those examples dont feature hicks/hillbillies as the 'main' enemies. Its a strawman that the Right were using saying there is some sort of double standard when it comes to video games, I could name a SHIT load more games where you kill communists or brown people for most of the game.