Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[Dolerman]

@Dynamo Frokane

Impossible - where's the Rick and Morty?

@ErsatzEmperor

Here's rick and morty

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane I'm not sure what I got it for anymore...certainly not for posting non-discussion/non-politics.

Including those four things you mention...that I replied to. :P

Anarcho-Capitalism, isn't what the meme is though, compared with the rest of it. They probably also wouldn't like Joe Rogan, but he's on there. It's just a jumbled mess of things that only shows someone is a progressive who likely is already on the opposite spectrum side of "thinks they're intellectuals".

(Also I feel like the other drama thread that exists is bad enough, maybe discussing twitter, rick and morty and Frozen might actually be required.)

But since I'm fully aware, that this is a meme dumping ground.

[Dolerman]

@Dynamo Frokane I'm not sure what I got it for anymore...certainly not for posting non-discussion/non-politics.

@SleepingSilence

If you're not sure then how can you be certain? :P

Anarcho-Capitalism, isn't what the meme is though, compared with the rest of it. They probably also wouldn't like Joe Rogan, but he's on there. It's just a jumbled mess of things that only shows someone is a progressive who likely is already on the opposite spectrum side of "thinks they're intellectuals".

@SleepingSilence

Well there are people who started out as Bro-gressive or Joe-gressive center left liberal, but bought into some of his more libertarian ideals and right-libertarian guests like stefan molyneux (who hes had on 3 times) and went down the ancap rabbit hole. It doesnt happen to everyone, but it does happen.

But since I'm fully aware, that this is a meme dumping ground.

@SleepingSilence

I have no problem with this.

[SleepingSilence]

If you're not sure then how can you be certain? :P

@Dynamo Frokane

...

:I Point granted, good sir.

I already previously once gave my thoughts and my changed thoughts on, Stefan Molyneux. But I'm not as sure anymore, because the same person that called him out. Called out another person (who I watch enough, to know them better.) Go on a live stream with them and babble like an idiot and not back up anything he said when not on his own...

But I've barely watched Joe Rogan. He's done a couple of assholish things in his personal life I'm aware of. But like random comments about looking good until fat or others that don't even fit pseudo-intellectualism. I know I'm judging a meme and it ignores the point. But what else can I do? Aside from post, random things myself...(and I live in Ohio, so if anyone is allowed to hate John Kasich, it's me.)

I'd prefer if people just stop telling me I can't do if they're doing it and pretend they have any high standard, if they don't. Live and let post, to be precise.

Also the virgin meme, is probably far more accurate. Though unless it's from a jock's perspective, I don't know how necessary it is, for the weights showing up twice, right next to each other.

[Dolerman]

Stefan Molynuex is more of a hypocrite than anything else, he clearly just cares about patreon/donation money more than any actual principles, but he's got that cult leader charm so it works for him.

I'd prefer if people just stop telling me I can't do if they're doing it and pretend they have any high standard, if they don't. Live and let post, to be precise.

Also the virgin meme, is probably far more accurate. Though unless it's from a jock's perspective, I don't know how necessary it is, for the weights showing up twice, right next to each other.

@SleepingSilence

I mean I've never told anyone not to posts memes here, so post away.

And the weights just means staying in shape, I suppose they could have shown a treadmill, but you get the idea.

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane I guess not on it's own, no. But I'll refrain from getting into discussions of double standards of everyone else. Just lamenting it was there. Because I'm being about as light hearted as possible in this conversation.

Probably. But I mean...most politics or media is in it for 'the dolla dolla bills'. So it's not really a huge crime, if graded on a curve.
Though I know people would argue hypocrites themselves aren't a problem and in some cases are the best people to talk about things. Like smokers telling their kids not to smoke. Hypocrite? Yes. Wrong? Wouldn't say so. (I know, not quite the same. But just the general idea of calling one a hypocrite. Or someone who would like money to feed themselves and speaking eloquently about politics is how you do it. Isn't itself, a problem. )

Meme would have been better that way.

[Dolerman]

Though I know people would argue hypocrites themselves aren't a problem and in some cases are the best people to talk about things. Like smokers telling their kids not to smoke. Hypocrite? Yes. Wrong? Wouldn't say so. (I know, not quite the same. But just the general idea of calling one a hypocrite. Or someone who would like money to feed themselves and speaking eloquently about politics is how you do it. Isn't itself, a problem. )

@SleepingSilence

Well speaking about Stefan specifically, he is absolutely wrong on a range of things but, I only bring up his hypocrisy because he pulled a 180 on a lot of his previous positions to satisfy a new audience during the election, so him being disingenuous is fair grounds to call him out on. Never said it was crime, that would be a strawman.

It also hurts his credibility when he has spent a long time building his brand around 'not afraid to have an honest conversation' when him contradicting his own principles is obviously not very honest.

Meme was fine as it was.

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane
He might very well be wrong on things. I'd rather have someone honestly wrong, than not honestly right. Truth and disclosure are two of the most important things about politics.

Didn't mean it as a strawman. Didn't say you made that argument, (actually now that I'm re-reading it I never used the crime either.) I even acknowledged that I was speaking in a broader/different sense on hypocrite/gets money from politics, as a character flaw.

Could you give him examples of him 180'ing? I'd believe you if you had them. And you say it was disingenuous 180'ing. Like liking something your party does and not liking it when it isn't. Which I grant, almost everyone/on every side does this nowadays...

But like you -can- completely change opinions with time. Like if you have videos or something. Hopefully ones like on his own channel. I've realized some people are dishonest on youtube and use things, out of context, a lot...

[Andreyich]

<Snipped quote by Andreyich>

Nice to know the dedicated regular is keeping track.

@Dynamo Frokane

I have a spreadsheet

[Dolerman]

@SleepingSilence

I think you are over complicating things in his defense and I'm not sure why. But you know he's a bit shady in his practices and there are a great many videos i could link you to, that do a better job of deconstructing all of his flaws much better than I could off the top of my head.

He calls himself an anarcho-capatilist, but hes very selective about where he applies that position of thinking to. He encourages people to leave their families if they arent Ancaps. He has violent urges towards his mother and has stated the only reason he hasnt killed her is because they are related. I mean the list goes on and on.

Hes not a conservative, and he doesnt represent mainstream american conservative values, he seems like a snake oil salesmen who will politically rant in whatever direction he feels will get him the most patreon dollars. I'm not saying hes the only political person on youtube who does this, but he's one of the most prolific.

Aside from the Jeff Holiday videos, have you seen the 2 Thunderf00t videos on him?

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane
>just realized I've already gotten into this debate with you and it's going in the exact same direction...

Because like someone or not. I'm not a hypocrite, nor do I accept double standards. I will defend someone, even if I disagree with them. If I think they're being sincere or if they're saying something correct.

My question, do you have videos on his own channel, that he has 180'd on. Maybe even real tweets or blog posts or something. (Just harder to fake videos.) In a way that isn't him actually changing opinions, but to pander politically. And if he has, than I'm saying it's wrong.

Thunderfoot is an awful person. And I haven't seen those videos, but I've seen him lie about enough things to not take his stuff seriously. :P

"He encourages people to leave their families if they arent Ancaps."

"He has violent urges towards his mother and has stated the only reason he hasn't killed her is because they are related."

Those sound like facetious statements/jokes to me. Very few people who aren't teennagers will wish death to parents for different political leanings...

And even if it wasn't sarcasm.

Hypocrite, is not the word I'd use for those examples...

[Dolerman]

"He encourages people to leave their families if they arent Ancaps."

"He has violent urges towards his mother and has stated the only reason he hasn't killed her is because they are related."

@SleepingSilence

[Dolerman]

Thunderfoot is an awful person. And I haven't seen those videos, but I've seen him lie about enough things to not take his stuff seriously. :P

@SleepingSilence

Would you please clarify in the same way you are asking to with me on Stefan, show proof and evidence that would invalidate a video of Thunderf00ts that you haven't seen?

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane Sure. I'll send you a few things. And I'll edit them in this post.

*google makes it really hard for me sometimes*

His is awful, because he is a liar. And he also is lost a shitload of subscribers. And that doesn't happen for no reason...It's hard to show lying about others, without the other side and a lot of context. But I'm doing just minimal work, to show he's had many spats with dishonesty.

TD:DW: He made a video accusing another youtuber that he directly joked about a tragedy, when he didn't and someone else in their stream did. This is him doubling down and receiving a response on it.

His vid


The rebuttal.


The actual short point. That makes it all clear.



Another lie about another youtuber (calls her dumb and shit): (Notice the like/dislike ratio and comment sections.)

His vid.


A rebuttal.


So can you tell, why I won't listen to his opinions on a youtuber, when he's lied about at least two of them.

[Dolerman]

@SleepingSilence you saw the Stefan vids, correct? Do you now accept I'm not making up facetious statements/jokes like you accused me of?

My question, do you have videos on his own channel, that he has 180'd on. Maybe even real tweets or blog posts or something. (Just harder to fake videos.) In a way that isn't him actually changing opinions, but to pander politically. And if he has, than I'm saying it's wrong.

@SleepingSilence

Here is an anti-voting video of his calling it self abuse, specifically mentioning that a democrat or republican will always end up spending more government money, which is consistent with ancap beliefs.

And as you know he became a full on trump supporter when the wave was at its hottest and surprise when people who were trump fans were donating a lot of patreon money to you-tubers who feverishly were into trump-mania.
Trump is in no way an ancap or even a libertarian, but stefan suddenly doesn't see voting as self abuse anymore because a hot topic means hot dollars.

He praised Margret Thatcher who is about as authoritarian as you can get, although claiming to be against all forms of government and especially those who outsource work which hurts the free market.

It's worth mentioning that Molyneux himself was against closed borders during his earlier embrace of the free market. Those videos have been scrubbed from his channel since shift towards the alt-right, though this hasn't stopped in-show callers from reminding him of this, such as 2016's "Andrew". In this video, Andrew points out that supporting violent coercion against refugees is incompatible with NAP. Stefan responds by claiming that morality doesn't apply within a statist society. A few moments later he goes back to saying that it does. Here is the video of the conversation.

Oh and there is other silly shit, he has some odd grudge against women and it surfaces in some of his videos sometimes. He said that Robin Williams killed himself because his ex wife stole all his money. Which Joe Rogan had to correct him on, because he an Willams have the same agent and knows for a fact that he didn't die broke. Stefan clearly made this up to make a broader point about pre-nups. I can give you the links to both on request, but they are both fairly long and it'd be a bit of effort, if you wont take my word for it.

[SleepingSilence]

@Dynamo Frokane

Those aren't full videos with context. Or on his own channel. I would like context on why he said those things. So I want the full video.

Also a comment on the mother video.

"The comments are nuts. He stated his mother beat him, didn't feed him for periods of time, neglected him, didn't even provide basics for him like okay clothes and deodorant, and somehow he's supposed to leave that situation wishing her well.

Essentially, if his accounts are true at the least she deserves to be in prison. "

Sounds like some legit bad blood with the mom, but certainly not just for politics, if this is true. (or even if not.) He still is saying this is why he dislikes the mom.

[SleepingSilence]

@SleepingSilence you saw the Stefan vids, correct? Do you now accept I'm not making up facetious statements/jokes like you accused me of?

@Dynamo Frokane

Okay, I mean this as politely as possible. Please. Please, take this constructively. I don't want this to be mud throwing.

Just like people not getting what this means. Or emoticons, being used in the way they are intended to be.

Please don't make this out to be a personal thing. Please.

I never said you're making it up. Or that you made facetious statements. I said Stefan could have said those things, but in a joking way. Not seriously.

And if it was serious. And the mom thing, seems like it was serious and because of getting abused by her.

I asked for whole context videos, on things he flipflopped on politically. Or even shilled for money for something he doesn't really believe in.

Not about him being a bad guy. Which these two videos you posted (which didn't have full context either) are making that point instead.

[SleepingSilence]

Here is an anti-voting video of his calling it self abuse, specifically mentioning that a democrat or republican will always end up spending more government money, which is consistent with ancap beliefs.

And as you know he became a full on trump supporter when the wave was at its hottest and surprise when people who were trump fans were donating a lot of patreon money to you-tubers who feverishly were into trump-mania.
Trump is in no way an ancap or even a libertarian, but stefan suddenly doesn't see voting as self abuse anymore because a hot topic means hot dollars.

He praised Margret Thatcher who is about as authoritarian as you can get, although claiming to be against all forms of government and especially those who outsource work which hurts the free market.

It's worth mentioning that Molyneux himself was against closed borders during his earlier embrace of the free market. Those videos have been scrubbed from his channel since shift towards the alt-right, though this hasn't stopped in-show callers from reminding him of this, such as 2016's "Andrew". In this video, Andrew points out that supporting violent coercion against refugees is incompatible with NAP. Stefan responds by claiming that morality doesn't apply within a statist society. A few moments later he goes back to saying that it does. Here is the video of the conversation.

Oh and there is other silly shit, he has some odd grudge against women and it surfaces in some of his videos sometimes. He said that Robin Williams killed himself because his ex wife stole all his money. Which Joe Rogan had to correct him on, because he an Willams have the same agent and knows for a fact that he didn't die broke. Stefan clearly made this up to make a broader point about pre-nups. I can give you the links to both on request, but they are both fairly long and it'd be a bit of effort, if you wont take my word for it.

@Dynamo Frokane

Okay, hopefully there's not more posts by the time I go through this...

This one video you sent me seems to be just for something he is consistent about.

1. Okay, so your vote doesn't matter video in a nutshell I assume?

2. Well, I don't know if he became a trump supporter -don't watch him- but a video on it would be nice. And some people wanted trump to win, to spite the democrat party. People voted that way on the left and right. So I'd need more on that, like if he praised something Trump did that went against believes in one of his videos. That be something. For instance.

3. Video on that? Please and thank you.

4. That video is not on his channel and is in fact on a channel obsessed with making videos bashing him specifically. So I don't know I can get "shill" from someone who is doing just that.

Now, if he did change his opinions on something. 180'd if you will. Is there a way to know if it's legit? Are you saying, he's someone that hopped on the Trump bandwagon...and that's the only reason for his different opinions now.

5. Stefan said something about Robin Williams that was inaccurate, that Joe Rogan called him on. Okay. So maybe it was an honest mistake? If, not then he is being dishonest. (with is an odd thing to lie about.) But not a flipflopper. I wasn't arguing that he was the nicest bloke on earth.

But I would like a video about it. Maybe the comments themselves can point out the briefness of them. I'd even accept Joe Rogan's video about it. Though it isn't really my original question.

[NuttsnBolts]

Since this came out today, I'd thought I'd share it:


Rather powerful and compelling; it questions so much about people's right to free speech.

[Gwynbleidd]

Since this came out today, I'd thought I'd share it:
-video snip-

Rather powerful and compelling; it questions so much about people's right to free speech.

@NuttsnBolts

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose. I didn't find that to be compelling or powerful. Maybe a tiny bit compelling.

They try to make a point about racists, misogynists, and all these other alleged discriminatory people, but at the same time manage to stereotype a frat bro and call him 'Chadwick'. Not the most effective way to make a point, it almost levels the entire video's meaning and subverts it by being a hypocrite through becoming what they're supposedly fighting against. At least, that's my take. Granted, it's one piece of the video, and a small one at that.

Is there a more poignant point to be looked at by analyzing the potential downsides of a Wild West Twitter where troll-slingers are shooting out verbal haymakers left and right, swiss-cheesing users with the bullet holes of their fully, genius wit-loaded e-rifles? Yeah, maybe.

However, I'm of the school of thought where free speech is free speech; it is absolute outside of extremely specific circumstances like attempting to stoke a riot. Twitter shuts down accounts from both sides, and sometimes the reasons are legitimate, and other times they're utterly unwarranted. I'd rather have a truly neutral online space. Say what you want. Be a dick, and therefore someone else will be a dick back to you.

If anything, a three strike policy of consistently provable and legitimate harassment would be my method of arbitrating a possible account suspension or outright ban. And, the jury would need to be diverse in their mode of thought for potential adjudication.

Regardless, there's always going to be people who say stupid shit, and who try to start stupid shit. Just like you would in real life, you ignore them and move on with your day and your life. But if we're going to attempt to use Twitter trolls as an avenue to shut down alleged hate speech, inevitably we're going to be walking right up to the slippery slope of censorship.

That never ends well, for anyone.