Frokane's Mildly Politcal Hangout Thread

[SleepingSilence]

@POOHEAD189 Yep.

@Penny Got it.

[POOHEAD189]

<Snipped quote by POOHEAD189>

Debateablely, I mean you guys had been fighting two massive foreign wars for 6 years by that point.

@Penny

Well, they were costly, not massive. But even so, I more meant the domestic situation.^^

[Penny]

Well, they were costly, not massive. But even so, I more meant the domestic situation.^^

@POOHEAD189

Oh you mean in the aftermath of that financial crisis? ;)

[mdk]

Oh you mean in the aftermath of that financial crisis? ;)

@Penny

How bout that Trump Bump though? We're cruising now! Rumor has it the economy's so strong Amazon might even start paying taxes.

[Penny]

Amazon might even start paying taxes.

@mdk

Not unless their lobbyists are drunk and asleep.

[POOHEAD189]

Oh you mean in the aftermath of that financial crisis? ;)

@Penny

Haha! Was that not a world event? Or was it just us and Greece?

[Andreyich]

@Andreyich Yeah, no thanks. But not to press you down and have you elaborate. But enlighten me. How many genders are there? If we're getting into that argument. We should actually know the number. And subsequently, why do all imaginary genders conform to those two specific words. And transgenders, with gender in the name, only convert FTM MTF?

@SleepingSilence

Gender is a feeling, so basically there are as many as tumblrinas imagine, i.e. unquantfiable

[Penny]

Right, its a bit like asking how many shades of blue there are.

[BrokenPromise]

Oh man, you guys are talking about the word gender, I LOVE to talk about the word gender.

Okay, firstly, it's interesting to know that what a word means changes over time. Because as the times change, so to does how a word is used. The word gender has actually gone through quite the transformation.

Sadly, I can't find what the word originally meant. I think it had something to do with one's culture. But what is very well documented is the words change to referring to one's sex. This was brought about by first wave feminists as the word sex was starting to be use for bed time activities.

Though in recent times (I won't pretend to know exactly when) nu-wave feminists started to push for the "feeling" angle, attempting to completely undo all the work the first wave feminists did trying to establish gender as a replacement for the word sex. The irony is almost palatable.

The transformation is not quite complete, but political correctness is something few are willing to oppose. Perhaps we'll have to wait for third wave feminists to come along to change it again.

[Penny]

it's interesting to know that what a word means changes over time. Because as the times change

@BrokenPromise

þu you warnest sé sy gedwolspræc hæf

[mdk]

<Snipped quote by mdk>

Not unless their lobbyists are drunk and asleep.

@Penny

It's actually.... hang on. Sourcing.

Okay, it's actually a funny case study in media bias. When Trump says it, it's "Baffling" and "PANTS-ON-FIRE" wrong. But then wait a few months for everyone to forget about all that and whattaya know? But don't hold your breath for retractions.

[SleepingSilence]

@Andreyich@Penny That is not how the world works. If we're going to change how we were using the word as we have been. The two genders correlate with the two sexes strictly. And we're going to alter our laws we cannot have an unknown amount of genders and gender pronouns and then expect to jail people who misgender someone for hate speech.

And if you want to use a dates and the relevance to justify something. This modern gender theory was very recently created. And I'm encouraged you to watch the video present because someone makes the very same argument you do.

Edit: Actually while I'm down this road. Changing the law to justify people's fantasies, without even a shred of skepticism. That means I'd assume you'd support giving puberty blockers to 3 year olds, punishing parents for child abuse if they don't give them hormones. Letting every human being on Earth use the bathroom that they choose and changing room for that matter. Because gender is a social construct and every single human being on Earth can be gender-fluid. Even questioning it would be transphobic. The government/others would have to completely change every single documentation, book and school policy. Things like grants for new businesses for women could be completely taken by men who transition. And male to female boxers like Fallon Fox can beat the ever-living shit out of women. We can leave the startling suicide rate statistics completely by the wayside along with common sense and biology. I assume you support all of that since you're using that particular "people think it's so it must be true" logic. Is trans race and trans age a social construct thing to?

You are not doing anyone favors by pretending there are more than 2 genders.

[Burning Kitty]

Is trans race and trans age a social construct thing to?

@SleepingSilence

Don't forget about trans species, trans race, etc.

And for anyone who thinks I believe that, I have a beach front condo in the middle of the Sahara to sell you.

[SleepingSilence]

(Damn you PC.)

[SleepingSilence]

@Burning Kitty I mean once you just give up and throw your hands in the air, that gender is whatever you want it to be. Implying this is reality itself and people should vastly change how society sees gender. You will suffer consequences and have to stand behind all it's implications.

You (not actually 'you' mind, speaking broadly in all cases.) can't even defend yourself against, strawman arguments like "What if I want to be a Filipino girl or a dragon?" Because for starters, it isn't a strawman, people have done this. And frankly if words can be so loosely defined, stuff like 'I identity as an attack helicopter' isn't any less far fetched when you boil it down to simple idea/concept...

I'm all for not demonizing the very concept of transgenderism. Allowing them to do what they feel. Not encourage bullying or hatred toward something they cannot merely switch on/off like a light. (another reason why I find gender fluid, such an abhorrent concept/made up idea.) Not assuming it's merely for attention, to understand I don't know how gender dysphoria feels to the brain. Like someone without depression, doesn't understand the intense emotional burden. Hell. I'd even use personal pronouns, to make them personally happy. But that isn't changing the fact 2 genders exist. FTM and MTF. "Trans-man" and "trans-woman". And all these demi-boy/girl, gender fluid, 2 spirit shit, ALL fluctuate between these 2 genders/sexes.

And it's frankly harming the social acceptance/tolerance, the trans community could experience. If the more activist (progressive left) members weren't trying to so hard to completely destroy how society functions. I could even believe, these "more than 2 gender" transgenders are actually in the vocal minority. And the people "speaking on their behalf" is just people embarrassing themselves with lack of foresight.

I'm all for personal acceptance, even acknowledging there's very little evidence that personal acceptance helps in the grand scheme of mental health, in the same way the richest, most beloved celebs in the world can still kill themselves in the end because poor mental health doesn't conform to reality. But I'm not for historical revisionism and completely screwing up society laws.

(Forgive my bluntness, I hate having to defend such obvious things and feel like I'm really offending someone right now. But I adamantly believe whether you fully support, or don't support, transgenderism. Saying that there's more than 2 genders, without giving an actual number. Does NOT help further understanding/acceptance in the transgender community. All you're doing is providing empty, shallow lip service.)

[Andrew Blade]

So if I feel that my rifle that was created as a short-barrel, semi-automatic, magazine-fed, centerfire rifle identifies as a rimfire, single-shot, bolt-action, I won't have any issues with an assault weapons ban?

[Penny]

ðu béo léas gesceap for cynd

[Penny]

activist (progressive left) members weren't trying to so hard to completely destroy how society functions.

@SleepingSilence

Penny's Diary Entry 20432:

When I give my presentation today I shall include a slide which lists my preferred pronouns, thus do I bring us ever closer to that glorious day when the moribund edifice they call 'society' comes crashing down!

[Andreyich]

Right, its a bit like asking how many shades of blue there are.

This is basically a perfect summation of it.

But I will humour this.

That is not how the world works. If we're going to change how we were using the word as we have been. The two genders correlate with the two sexes strictly. And we're going to alter our laws we cannot have an unknown amount of genders and gender pronouns and then expect to jail people who misgender someone for hate speech.

@SleepingSilence

Are you sure about that?
Looking through Google Ngram Viewer it would appear the earliest citable use of the word "gender" is in 1718
google.ca/search?q="gender"…
Even back then gender did not refer to the biological differences between man and woman. It referred to what you would use to conjugate words in a sentence: he, she, it. Of languages I know french and russian there is masculine plural and feminine plural in addition to the English styled neuter plural.

From the 1950s or so, it started to be used in context of people feeling neither male nor female pronouns describing them.

Actually while I'm down this road. Changing the law to justify people's fantasies, without even a shred of skepticism. That means I'd assume you'd support giving puberty blockers to 3 year olds, punishing parents for child abuse if they don't give them hormones. Letting every human being on Earth use the bathroom that they choose and changing room for that matter. Because gender is a social construct and every single human being on Earth can be gender-fluid. Even questioning it would be transphobic. The government/others would have to completely change every single documentation, book and school policy. Things like grants for new businesses for women could be completely taken by men who transition. And male to female boxers like Fallon Fox can beat the ever-living shit out of women. We can leave the startling suicide rate statistics completely by the wayside along with common sense and biology. I assume you support all of that since you're using that particular "people think it's so it must be true" logic. Is trans race and trans age a social construct thing to?

You are not doing anyone favors by pretending there are more than 2 genders.

Oh don't get me wrong. I'm 100% sure transgenderism is a mental illness and as with most other mental illnesses you should not indulge the delusions of the insane, in all but the most dire cases, particularly since many people "grow out of" transgenderism, whilst you can't grow out of slicing off your tits. I am wholly against hormone blockers and enforcing gender confusion amongst children. But arguing over linguistics will only waste time while parents are slicing off their kid's weiners against their will, and will detract from the problem of actually helping these sick people with their problems.

[SleepingSilence]

@Andreyich Your argument seems completely based on the semantics idea of "gender" wasn't used for sex since the beginning of time. So that in turn means, the word is meaningless and can be turned into whatever you want it to mean. You could say the very same for other words, but it doesn't change what they mean now. But that just doesn't conform to reality with even a passing glance. So yes, saying you should recognize false identities in law, is a fallacious argument. Especially if you choose to accept, all progressives thoughts are valid. Because some are in direct conflict within one another.

And again if we're going on older the date, the more credible the source. Non-binary and all of those words assuming a gender spectrum are far, far more recently coined.

aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-i…

madskeptic.wordpress.com/2016/09/24/d…

rebeccarc.com/2016/01/06/gender-is-no…

So, no I flat out disagree that "arguing of linguistics" isn't important. People have been jailed for misuse of pronouns...all these labels are thrown out there BECAUSE language matters. More than how accurate any of them even are to reality and evidence.

You get into fucking appropriation wars like this...

conspireforchange.org/?p=2283

White people can't use two spirit because it's a cultural appropriation, oh fuck I thought it was a 'gender'...Not a Halloween costume. <.<

Also, you failed to explain how we'd be able to push all of this into law, without people being able to abuse the hell of the government. Gender Fluid, means fuck you I'm both and neither, or which ever I please, any time I want. You can't prove I'm lying, I'll sue you if you tell me otherwise.

If you don't even support it, at it's most basic level, you're just flat out misinformed on the word and how it's been used in tandem with sex. Because we aren't just arguing over semantics of language. The left is arguing over reality bending and pushing political laws.





Gender is not a social construct in any meaningful way. Not in the progressive way, in what they mean by claiming that. It is a biological fact. That men have more masculine traits and females have more feminine traits on average.

familyinequality.wordpress.com/2013/0…