So, Game of Thrones (No threads yet?)

[Captain Jordan]

Jster said
The ASOS list has a lot of casualties from the Battle of the Blackwater.Otherwise all the names come from basically one event where we really only care about two of the people that got killed.

Are you suggesting we care about the characters in ADWD more?

[Sloth]

Captain Jordan said
Are you suggesting we care about the characters in ADWD more?

Might be considered spoilery

People didn't care about Quentyn? This saddens me greatly.

[mbl]

Sloth said

He's not major (Multiple book) character in the series.

There's only a couple major character deaths in ADWD and the most major one didn't necessarily remove said character from the series. I really detested these last two books for how much they slowed the series down. AFFC was utter bullshit; ADWD had some pull, but was still not on the same level as the first three books.

[Captain Jordan]

mbl said
He's not major (Multiple book) character in the series. There's only a couple major character deaths in ADWD and the most major one didn't necessarily remove said character from the series. I really detested these last two books for how much they slowed the series down. AFFC was utter bullshit; ADWD had some pull, but was still not on the same level as the first three books.

To be fair, AGOT, ACOK and ASOS were written as a trilogy. Clearly, that didn't pan out, as we're sitting here with 5 books out of a planned 7. However, it makes some sense if you consider the first three to be a trilogy reworked into a larger series, they're quite cohesive and fast paced compared to the later books. We can only hope that The Winds of Winter will speed things up.

[mbl]

Captain Jordan said
To be fair, AGOT, ACOK and ASOS were written as a trilogy. Clearly, that didn't pan out, as we're sitting here with 5 books out of a planned 7. However, it makes some sense if you consider the first three to be a trilogy reworked into a larger series, they're quite cohesive and fast paced compared to the later books. We can only hope that The Winds of Winter will speed things up.

I'd say most of the slowdown from going from a 3 book series to a 7 book series happened by the second book; book one featured considerably more plot progression than any later books. The main problems with books 4 and 5 is that they are just one book split in to two with a bunch of filler thrown in. Sure, it is possible that what was originally planned as book 4 featured too much content to feasibly fit in one book (#Doubtit), but the way they handled it just wasn't the way to go to keep the series' artistic integrity intact. It made them more moneys, but it added two sub-par books to the series as apposed to one possibly-ok book. I both hope and expect the sixth book to bring the series back to where it should be, but if they try to continue sellout tactics in the last two books the series will likely be ruined for me.

[mdk]

mbl said
I'd say most of the slowdown from going from a 3 book series to a 7 book series happened by the second book; book one featured considerably more plot progression than any later books. The main problems with books 4 and 5 is that they are just one book split in to two with a bunch of filler thrown in. Sure, it is possible that what was originally planned as book 4 featured too much content to feasibly fit in one book (#Doubtit), but the way they handled it just wasn't the way to go to keep the series' artistic integrity intact. It made them more moneys, but it added two sub-par books to the series as apposed to one possibly-ok book. I both hope and expect the sixth book to bring the series back to where it should be, but if they try to continue sellout tactics in the last two books the series will likely be ruined for me.

The writing in 4/5 suffered a lot, too. There are too many things in motion, and GRRM has to overplay all his foreshadowing in these little controlled bursts just to keep up with everyone being all over everywhere.

Book one is like

Cat meets Ned with Littlefinger while they're hiding from Varys to say Tyrion tried to murder Bran.

Book five is like

John Snow knew crazy shit was happening so he opened a letter to say more bad shit was happening, so he locked up his wolf even though he remembered he wasn't supposed to lock up his wolf and then bad shit happened.

We're gradually losing all the inter-woven-ness of the characters, as they split apart all over the various unknown parts of the world. As they become more isolated their stories become flatter and more predictable. The quality of the writing directly corresponds to how many characters are in the same holdfast. So I'm hopeful, now that Dany's retinue has expanded, and I'm hoping that the Baratheon camp continues to grow.

and

Fie on you, he's not dead, Ramsay Snow is full of shit.

[The Nexerus]

Ramsay Snow is the most genuinely detestable character I've seen. Some of his scenes in the TV series were hard to watch.

[Captain Jordan]

The Nexerus said
Ramsay Snow is the most genuinely detestable character I've seen. Some of his scenes in the TV series were hard to watch.

Ramsay Snow > Joffrey Baratheon. Joffrey is sadly predictable, he's low and petty, and barely clever (it's like every generation since Tywin has lost about half the cleverness of the last).

Slightly spoiler, will probably be revealed this season anyway

The only really impressive thing he did was send the footpad after Bran with Tyrion's blade, but he still did it for petty reasons.

Ramsay, on the other hand, is pretty unpredictable. He's shown that he can act and play the friend, and lie with impunity, as well as be sadistically evil. Everything he does is for his own pleasure, but it's not always clear what will give him pleasure. Although the show is giving him far too many scenes with sausages in them.

[Lady Squee]

Ramsay makes my skin crawl.

"Although the show is giving him far too many scenes with sausages in them."

DEAD SO DEAD XD

[natsumehack]

Lady Squee said
Ramsay makes my skin crawl. "Although the show is giving him far too many scenes with sausages in them."DEAD SO DEAD XD

Sausages are the best way to tell death.

[mbl]

He didn't really stand out to me in the books, but Ramsay quickly became one of my fav characters in the show.

[Captain Jordan]

mbl said


He didn't really stand out to me in the books, but Ramsay quickly became one of my fav characters in the show.

You've got the wrong bloody Ramsay there.

[Tick]

Captain Jordan said
Ramsay Snow > Joffrey Baratheon. Joffrey is sadly predictable, he's low and petty, and barely clever (it's like every generation since Tywin has lost about half the cleverness of the last).

Insulting the grand Tyrion Lannister in a GoT fan thread. Bold move.

I thought Joffrey was a fantastic character (note: in the show). Watching him make everyone miserable and fuck shit up, and fail to have any real power/everyone going out of their way to get around him, is entertaining as all Hell. And I always thought it clever and hilarious that the worst king in the show is a perfect poster child of a spoiled little shit at its sociopathic extreme. Reminds me of the average shit king in real life.

[mbl]

Captain Jordan said
You've got the wrong bloody Ramsay there.

I'm so embarrassed

[mdk]

Tick said
Insulting the grand Tyrion Lannister in a GoT fan thread. Bold move.

Tyrion isn't as clever as he thinks he is. And, also, on the side, he seems to share his brother's taste for really weird pussy.

[natsumehack]

The best actor is the cow.

[Captain Jordan]

natsumehack said
The best actor is the cow.

Wench*

[ActRaiserTheReturned]

Lady Squee said
Ramsay makes my skin crawl. "Although the show is giving him far too many scenes with sausages in them."DEAD SO DEAD XD

My sadistic mind demands fanficts with Wolverine and Ramsay Snow.

[Jorick]

Captain Jordan said
Sadly, Books 4 and 5 are quite sedate when it comes to deaths. It's as if GRRM lost his taste for the stuff. I'm waiting for another POV character to die, hopefully in Book 6.

Book 4 is sedate as pertains to deaths, sure. Book 5 though? It only seems sedate due to how insane ASOS was. I went through that list of the dead that you link later on in the thread, and counting only the confirmed deaths in ADWD it's pretty much on par with AGOT and ACOK for total deaths. It also matches up with my highly subjective count of important characters killed, with 5 a piece for books 1, 2, and 5. ASOS has 10 important deaths and half again as many total deaths as the other books by my count. AFFC only has 2 important deaths and less than half the total deaths of any other book in the series, for the record. Book 5 probably just seems very sedate to you because of the plot pacing, which I understand but personally have no problem with.

Captain Jordan said
To be fair, AGOT, ACOK and ASOS were written as a trilogy. Clearly, that didn't pan out, as we're sitting here with 5 books out of a planned 7. However, it makes some sense if you consider the first three to be a trilogy reworked into a larger series, they're quite cohesive and fast paced compared to the later books. We can only hope that The Winds of Winter will speed things up.

No they weren't, or at least not in the way you seem to be implying. His original concept of a trilogy was to be A Game of Thrones, A Dance with Dragons, and The Winds of Winter. Before he was even done with the manuscript for AGOT he realized three books wouldn't be enough and estimated that he'd need 4, then while still writing that he bumped the estimate up to 6 books. The idea at that point was to have two linked trilogies with a time skip in between. As he started to write ADWD he realized the time skip wasn't going to work out very well at all, so A Feast for Crows was born to bridge the gap and push the series out to 7 books.

It wasn't at all like the first three were written with the intent being to wrap everything up by the end of ASOS, but he decided around the end of that one to keep going. The original trilogy idea was intended to encompass the entirety of the major plot points being told over the series, including those to come in the next two books, and GRRM decided that wouldn't work so he expanded the scope.

[mbl]

mdk said
Tyrion isn't as clever as he thinks he is. And, also, on the side, he seems to share his brother's taste for really weird pussy.

Tyrion rode a non-stop train of epic-wins throughout the first book, which made him easily one of the most likeable characters of the first book, but in later books once he started failing at things he was trying to do and ended up accomplishing very little he became just another character to me.