[OOC] The League - Superhero Sci Fi and Urban Fantasy RP

[VitaVitaAR]

Um... wait, who's arguing?

If you mean Charlotte, Rolling Girl, and Hot Rod, I didn't think that was arguing so much as Charlotte remarking how stupid you'd have to be(in her opinion) to miss the burns she was healing, um.

[MrDidact]

Well arguing in the sense that Hot Rod rose to Charlotte's barb and responded. In any case taking too much time to talk is a bad idea.

[Raineh Daze]

Homeless girl is probably glaring a hole in Pariah's head wherever he's watching this from. :p

Random terrorist vs invisible martial artist: yay simplicity?

[VitaVitaAR]

Honestly, if Pariah's not completely insane I doubt there's a real bomb there.

... Also at this point all I could think of posting is "Charlotte walks out and chews Pariah out over having the trainers use lethal damage and the situation being completely impossibly ridiculous".

[Yog Sothoth]

Actually training like that is necessary since the villains will never hold back and it gives good expectation of what's to come when our characters go up against the extremely powerful villains.

[Dblade26]

I can't think of any reason there would be a real bomb there, even a pragmatic one, unless Pariah's aiming for the League to potentially wind up with no recruits on the first day and for it to be shut down pending a major international incident.

Also kind of agree that this has both dragged on a little too long and become kind of excessive. Experienced enough to pull punches might work in some cases but it's still maybe a bad thing when you have as many dangerous injuries and in your initiation trials as you do in the live-fire, actually fighting super-villains thing.

[Raineh Daze]

Training that potentially cripples and/or kills the heroes isn't going to help them with supervillains. It's very hard to actually deal with them when you're immobilised due to injury or six feet under.

The whole point of training is to try and prepare you for the worse stuff without all the same risks. Unless you have infinite manpower and don't mind casualties, but that's not very heroic.

[MrDidact]

Excessive? Perhaps, but Pariah doesn't believe in half-measures.

But none of them were really at serious risk. All of the henchmen had non-lethal weapons and the majority of the trainers weren't even using their powers to their full extent. Pray tell, was it ever actually confirmed by Strix that Phantasm was telling the truth about having live rounds? And none of the trainers used more powerful attacks on the weaker members, punching bags like Furious and Changeling could take a lot of damage and bounce back.

Or if they did like Ember, they knew how to pull their punches. Ember is a pyrokinetic of the highest order, fire is her in a sense. She can turn into fire and she bends it to her will, if she was really trying almost none of her shots would have missed. But she made her blasts slow and obvious to dodge not at all like a flamethrower. And since her fire is a part of her and is an extension of her will she would know if she went too far. If you really thought about it, they all pulled their punches, with their numbers, experience, skills, and powers they could have crippled and maimed everyone before they got anywhere near the fight. Or killed them deader than dead.

And lastly they're right dab smack in the middle of the Hall of Justice where basically every member knows at least how to deal with basic first aid and battlefield injury with access to world-class medical facilities and even full-blown magical healers. There were no injuries inflicted or even potential injuries that couldn't have been fixed with enough time. So really this is nowhere near what the heroes will face when they come up against the serious villains. It's a taste of the kind of ferocity, skill, and power they will face and seeks to prepare them for it. And as such it is a training mission.

[Raineh Daze]

If the NPC heroes are that good, there is absolutely no point to being in the roleplay, because you've equated 'not big-league superheroes and already in the league' with 'cannon fodder C-listers'. If there are that many vastly more powerful, skilled, experienced heroes, there is no reason for the PC's to exist. They would never be asked to deal with anything more than petty crime, because next to the NPC's they'll just get in the way.

[Yog Sothoth]

Raineh Daze said
If the NPC heroes are that good, there is absolutely no point to being in the roleplay, because you've equated 'not big-league superheroes and already in the league' with 'cannon fodder C-listers'. If there are vastly more powerful, skilled, experienced heroes, . They would never be asked to deal with anything more than petty crime, because next to the NPC's they'll just get in the way.

I think you should read a little more comics, there are C listers in the justice league and the avengers, it is also the same with the x men, powers aren't everything, it is how you handle a situation. Batman is considered an A list hero and he doesn't have any powers. Superheroes are not just about the powers its how you use them, this isn't like an anime where its the abilities that determine how good a character is. Just because there are powerful NPCs doesn't mean that roleplaying is useless, that almost sounds like a complaint of having characters stronger than yours, Justice league has superman who is much stronger than Vibe or Animal Man but that doesn't make them useless heroes.

[MrDidact]

The members already in the League are a few dozen, the whole roster including support staff is perhaps a few hundred at the start of the RP. The League is meant to keep the peace in a vast country of hundreds of millions and eventually the whole world and beyond. Trust me, the PCs will get their fair share of the action and even more. Because in real missions crippling injuries and even death can happen and the most powerful might not always be there. And there's more to fighting villains than fighting them all-out in broad daylight. There are infiltration missions. Investigations. Things that require subtlety and sneaking around and not just smashing stuff. Besides almost everyone chose to play 'C-Listers" of their own volition, most of the PCs are small-time amateurs because they were created by their players that way. It's no action of mine that makes them that way. And everyone loves underdog stories anyway :P

[An Outsider]

Well I've got Volt and I've pretty clearly marked him as A-list seeing as he's the biggest hero in Britain. Just he's not in the training simulation, is all.

[VitaVitaAR]

... Being honest...

In an RP there can be powerful NPC's, yes. But the focus in an RP is on the player characters. The player characters are the ones who should be able to solve big problems and defeat major threats.

This actually was pretty well exemplified in this RP, in the actual heroes vs. villains fights, the heroes were able to do quite well and defeat them. But then we get to this training mission. The player characters having a tough time is fine, but this is beyond that. The player characters should be able to actually fight the others. In some cases they're decently-established heroes in their own right, or at least have plenty of experience. If it's basically "the player characters are effectively useless" I really don't see much of a point because this is an RP where the player characters are meant to be the central focus.

RP's aren't supposed to feel like your characters are totally worthless and outclassed. But it's honestly feeling like that with this training mission. It's been dragging on for a long time and nothing any of the players do seems to stick for any significant amount of time. It's honestly a stark contrast between the fights with real villains, where the player characters really did feel like they were the focus.

I don't expect this to be easy, but I don't expect it to be completely impossible either. By now the new(I use that term broadly given that some of them are actually not particularly new to being heroes) heroes should have made some major progress. It would have been tough, but they could have done it.

But now, well... let's look at Hot Rod, Charlotte, and Rolling Girl. Charlotte is a highly experienced magic user with a variety of tricks up her sleeve. I would need to look at Rolling Girl's bio again, but she's a speedster who can probably deliver some pretty hard hits. Hot Rod is the same, given his current speed.

There is no reason they shouldn't be able to take on Sentinel. I'd say even individually they should be able to, though it would naturally be harder. Charlotte has magic and experience, and I imagine super speed would be pretty useful against a telekinetic. That's only one example of how ridiculous this training mission has turned out.

This entire training mission has ceased to be fun long ago, and while I joined with the expectation that there would be NPC heroes more experienced then the players(by varying degrees) I didn't think that meant the players would basically be totally ineffective compared to them.

As for you, Yog, regardless of power level the players are still supposed to be the focus. Some players have few or no powers, being more powerful isn't the issue.

And please don't make disparaging incorrect generalizations about things I enjoy, thank you very much.

[Yog Sothoth]

Hot Rod would consider himself an A-lister since he is basically a celebrity in America and has a great amount of fans, he also has beaten a lot of villains.

[Raineh Daze]

Yog Sothoth said
Hot Rod would consider himself an A-lister since he is basically a celebrity in America and has a great amount of fans, he also has beaten a lot of villains.

... which doesn't matter because apparently he is nothing compared to any one of the trainers. None of the PC's are. This is the problem; even supposedly-experienced heroes are complete novices in comparison.

[Yog Sothoth]

VitaVitaAR said
... Being honest...In an RP there can be powerful NPC's, yes. But the focus in an RP is on the player characters. The player characters are the ones who should be able to solve big problems and defeat major threats.This actually was pretty well exemplified in this RP, in the actual heroes vs. villains fights, the heroes were able to do quite well and defeat them. But then we get to this training mission. The player characters having a tough time is fine, but this is beyond that. The player characters should be able to actually fight the others. In some cases they're decently-established heroes in their own right, or at least have plenty of experience. If it's basically "the player characters are effectively useless" I really don't see much of a point because this is an RP where the player characters are meant to be the central focus.RP's aren't supposed to feel like your characters are totally worthless and outclassed. But it's honestly feeling like that with this training mission. It's been dragging on for a long time and nothing any of the players do seems to stick for any significant amount of time. It's honestly a stark contrast between the fights with real villains, where the player characters really did feel like they were the focus.I don't expect this to be easy, but I don't expect it to be completely impossible either. By now the new(I use that term broadly given that some of them are actually not particularly new to being heroes) heroes should have made some major progress. It would have been tough, but they could have done it.But now, well... let's look at Hot Rod, Charlotte, and Rolling Girl. Charlotte is a highly experienced magic user with a variety of tricks up her sleeve. I would need to look at Rolling Girl's bio again, but she's a speedster who can probably deliver some pretty hard hits. Hot Rod is the same, given his current speed.There is no reason they shouldn't be able to take on Sentinel. I'd say even individually they should be able to, though it would naturally be harder. Charlotte has magic and experience, and I imagine super speed would be pretty useful against a telekinetic. That's only one example of how ridiculous this training mission has turned out.This entire training mission has ceased to be fun long ago, and while I joined with the expectation that there would be NPC heroes more experienced then the players(by varying degrees) I didn't think that meant the players would basically be totally ineffective compared to them.As for you, Yog, regardless of power level the players are still supposed to be the focus. Some players have few or no powers, being more powerful isn't the issue.And please don't make disparaging incorrect generalizations about things I enjoy, thank you very much.

my whole point is that power level difference is not everything when it comes to superheroes, it is proven time and time again in western comics. Just because some of the heroes are stronger than others doesn't make your character useless, again Batman is a primary member of the justice league and has no powers.

[Yog Sothoth]

Raineh Daze said
... which doesn't matter because apparently he is nothing compared to any one of the trainers. None of the PC's are. This is the problem; even supposedly-experienced heroes are complete novices in comparison.

and again I point to how superman can make many heroes look weak but they still offer a great asset to the justice league.

[Raineh Daze]

Yog Sothoth said
my whole point is that power level difference is not everything when it comes to superheroes, it is proven time and time again in western comics. Just because some of the heroes are stronger than others doesn't make your character useless, again Batman is a primary member of the justice league and has no powers.

... Yog, it's not just the power level difference. It's the fact that the PC's are apparently completely unable to cope with the NPC's in any capacity. One of the characters basically is Batman.

Yog Sothoth said
and again I point to how superman can make many heroes look weak but they still offer a great asset to the justice league.

Stop acting like I'm saying 'it's wrong they're stronger'. If you say that one more time it's clear you're not actually reading anything I write.

It is wrong, that they are better in every damn way.

[Rin]

...Yog, when people point out how you're casually insulting them and the things they like, actually pay attention. It's incredibly rude.

And I'm still waiting to hear what your problems with Alexis were. This wasn't a joke or anything, I was honestly concerned about it and the fact that you just completely ignored me when I asked why you decided my character was overpowered reflects incredibly badly on you. It's one of the reasons I'm having trouble posting with her, actually, since I'm worried I screwed up with her somehow.

[Yog Sothoth]

Raineh Daze said
... Yog, it's not just the power level difference. It's the fact that the PC's are apparently completely unable to cope with the NPC's in any capacity. One of the characters basically Batman.

MrDidact also pointed out that you made your characters that way, Gabriel could go toe to toe with the trainers in the training room. when you want your characters to be like street level heroes then they are going look outclassed when compared to A list heroes. This rp is very much like the justice league and in the justice league, there are A list and C list heroes. Batman at first glance looks out of place and weak when compared to the rest of founding members of the league, but when he shows off his brains and strategic skills then you see why he deserves to be on a team of heroes like the justice league. comic books do this all the time and it works.