[OOC] HCL 2: Twisted tinkers' triumph

[supertinyking]

Akihisa Yoshii said
...I have no idea what the fuck is going on...Hi again, I'm never coming back, good luck guys ^-^ *unsubs*

Chris.....dude......

[Wraithblade6]

Me returngin to HCL:

[Wraithblade6]

[thewizardguy]

Heya guys, sorry I´ve been gone for a while. It was a busy day for me. Furthermore, I've spent some time thinking about how to say this, and what to do.

Originally, when I discovered HCL2 was running properly again, I was ecstatic. This place holds many memories for me, and I had been sad to see it die out, in no small part due to my own inattentiveness. As such, I started a storyline as soon as possible, and just threw in bad guys and explosions. I mean, it's usually the best way to get the plot going. But I have realized that there are some problems, and I want to try and make some changes, to make HCL more fun. Because I'm AMAZINGLY paranoid of somehow screwing this up and alienating everyone, I'm putting these up here for everyone to judge, and we'll make changes based on what everyone thinks.

- Power Level Nerf.
The current level of 'splosions being thrown around is simply retarded. When characters can rip apart entire planets with their bare hands, and most characters are virtually impossible to either harm without using their kryptonite, fighting loses a lot of meaning. We can't have a proper battlefield, space and distance has lost all meaning. There are no civilisations or factions, there are no settings or places, because any place that would be built would be destroyed the next second. I want to nerf the raw power of all characters, bringing them down to a less retarded height. I visualize fighting on the scale of The Avengers, as opposed to playing Intergalactic Ping Pong.

- Killability.
For many characters, physical combat has lost all meaning. They're made of energy, or have massively malleable forms, meaning that fighting physically is pointless. It seems like there's almost no reason anymore for a character to use explosions, blades and fists, and only soular attacks are even useful. I want to draw this down massively, and give physical conflict meaning again. All characters must be killable in some way, and immunities to things are very special, and must be thoroughly limited. I want to make sure that a sword through the face is more than just a nuisance.

- Meaning of movement
At the moment, any character can move anywhere from anywhere at any time. Space and seperation have no meaning, it doesn't matter where you are, because anyone could teleport to any location. I mean, teleportation used to be a special ability people could have, instead of being an automatic assumption. I would like to make 'portalling' harder, or slower, or in some other way limited, so as to bring back the meaning of travel. Having an epic journey is impossible if Frodo can simply portal to Mordor.

- Single World, Many Incarnations
The Multiverse is vast. More than simply vast, it is quite literally Infinite. The sheer amount of possible places are so massive, that it's impossible for any of them to really have much meaning. My idea for solving this is to limit the events of HCL to a single planet, for now known as WankerWorld. However, in order to not limit things, we can still travel through dimensions to find many incarnations of this world. One might be a world covered in vampires waging a blood war, another might be an important Rebel Base, currently under siege by the Empire. Each of these worlds is different, and each character will originate from one of these Dimensions. Stellar travel should be possible in Dimensions that have space ships and the like, but Space will once more be treated as the health hazard it really is. Also, flying through space takes, like, forever.

- Midget Cannon.
A fully automatic weapon, equipped with a powerful Random Portal Matrix guided by radioactive bullshit. Capable of firing over 300 midgets per second at high velocity, drawn from random locations throughout the multiverse. Bob will have this. Because.... Midget Cannon. Do I really need another reason?

- Basic Lore.
I already hinted in this direction way back when Wraith originally joined this roleplay, but I like the idea that only a few specific beings are able to travel the multiverse. These would be 'chosen', somehow, and gain the capability to mvoe from one dimension to another. Of course, such people would almost by definition be drawn to massive conflicts, capable of changing the destiny of every world. This is a basic lore change to explain why some characters can move between worlds and npcs cannot.

If enacted out in it's compelte form, this would be a massive overhaul. I'm not sure how many people want that right now, so I want to hear everyone's opinions before I do anything, so please do criticise and talk. This can be everything from a tweaking to an overhaul.

[ShadowVentus]

I pretty much agree with everything you've thrown on the table, Matt. Luckily, or hopefully, at least, my main character, Michael, meets all of these criteria regarding his abilities. I can definitely tweak his portaling ability to act as a sort of fast traveling mechanic. He can only use the Corridor of Darkness if he knows the location he wants to teleport to. Other than that, I believe his skills as a magic-using, sword-wielding, dragon-possessed, tactician are in check. If it is preferred, I can recreate a CS for him and a few of my other characters that explain their pros and cons more accurately.

[kishin asura]

thewizardguy said
Heya guys, sorry I´ve been gone for a while. It was a busy day for me. Furthermore, I've spent some time thinking about how to say this, and what to do.Originally, when I discovered HCL2 was running properly again, I was ecstatic. This place holds many memories for me, and I had been sad to see it die out, in no small part due to my own inattentiveness. As such, I started a storyline as soon as possible, and just threw in bad guys and explosions. I mean, it's usually the best way to get the plot going. But I have realized that there are some problems, and I want to try and make some changes, to make HCL more fun. Because I'm AMAZINGLY paranoid of somehow screwing this up and alienating everyone, I'm putting these up here for everyone to judge, and we'll make changes based on what everyone thinks. - Power Level Nerf.The current level of 'splosions being thrown around is simply retarded. When characters can rip apart entire planets with their bare hands, and most characters are virtually impossible to either harm without using their kryptonite, fighting loses a lot of meaning. We can't have a proper battlefield, space and distance has lost all meaning. There are no civilisations or factions, there are no settings or places, because any place that would be built would be destroyed the next second. I want to nerf the raw power of all characters, bringing them down to a less retarded height. I visualize fighting on the scale of The Avengers, as opposed to playing Intergalactic Ping Pong. - Killability.For many characters, physical combat has lost all meaning. They're made of energy, or have massively malleable forms, meaning that fighting physically is pointless. It seems like there's almost no reason anymore for a character to use explosions, blades and fists, and only soular attacks are even useful. I want to draw this down massively, and give physical conflict meaning again. All characters must be killable in some way, and immunities to things are very special, and must be thoroughly limited. I want to make sure that a sword through the face is more than just a nuisance. - Meaning of movementAt the moment, any character can move anywhere from anywhere at any time. Space and seperation have no meaning, it doesn't matter where you are, because anyone could teleport to any location. I mean, teleportation used to be a special ability people could have, instead of being an automatic assumption. I would like to make 'portalling' harder, or slower, or in some other way limited, so as to bring back the meaning of travel. Having an epic journey is impossible if Frodo can simply portal to Mordor. - Single World, Many IncarnationsThe Multiverse is vast. More than simply vast, it is quite literally Infinite. The sheer amount of possible places are so massive, that it's impossible for any of them to really have much meaning. My idea for solving this is to limit the events of HCL to a single planet, for now known as WankerWorld. However, in order to not limit things, we can still travel through dimensions to find many incarnations of this world. One might be a world covered in vampires waging a blood war, another might be an important Rebel Base, currently under siege by the Empire. Each of these worlds is different, and each character will originate from one of these Dimensions. Stellar travel should be possible in Dimensions that have space ships and the like, but Space will once more be treated as the health hazard it really is. Also, flying through space takes, like, forever. - Midget Cannon.A fully automatic weapon, equipped with a powerful Random Portal Matrix guided by radioactive bullshit. Capable of firing over 300 midgets per second at high velocity, drawn from random locations throughout the multiverse. Bob will have this. Because.... Midget Cannon. Do I really need another reason? - Basic Lore.I already hinted in this direction way back when Wraith originally joined this roleplay, but I like the idea that only a few specific beings are able to travel the multiverse. These would be 'chosen', somehow, and gain the capability to mvoe from one dimension to another. Of course, such people would almost by definition be drawn to massive conflicts, capable of changing the destiny of every world. This is a basic lore change to explain why some characters can move between worlds and npcs cannot.If enacted out in it's compelte form, this would be a massive overhaul. I'm not sure how many people want that right now, so I want to hear everyone's opinions before I do anything, so please do criticise and talk. This can be everything from a tweaking to an overhaul.

Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with hcl at the moment.

The power level is fairly good. Sure there are chars that can tear apart planets. But 1. It could be worse. It could be galaxies, universes, or basic concepts. 2. Just because a char has that kind of power doesn't necessarily mean they will always use 100% of that power in battle.

As for killability,, that problem only exists with toguro, cosmos, and 5. Of course there's najimi, but she's supposed to be near impossible to kill. How else can she defeat op chars besides with all her abilities(which make her near impossible to kill)? And before you bring up darkside, yes, he can die. That doesn't mean it's easy to keep it that way.

Movement is where I call bullshit. Going anywhere at any time?? Maybe. But that's if you don't take dimensional locks into account. We rarely use dimensional locks anymore. On an unrelated note I just noticed I added an extra comma and an extra question mark but back to the topic at hand. Another factor is the given "rules" of a dimension. Such "rules" could not only prevent a person from portalling to another dimension, but also prevent them from using their full power, if it allows them to use any amount of their power at all. Which is also why the power level nerfing is not needed.

Yes the multiverse is infinite. But the many incarnations of wankerworld wouldn't simplify it. Rather it would be just as infinite. As the incarnations are technically separate dimensions. Much like the dimensions of the multiverse. So what's stopping one incarnation from being the soul eater version of wankerworld. Or the rosario+vampire version? Or God forbid, the d.gray-man version?

Midget cannon? Really?

Also, don't use the word retarded. I find it offensive, and honestly I don't think it means what you think it means.

[Teoinsanity]

kishin asura said
Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with hcl at the moment.The power level is fairly good. Sure there are chars that can tear apart planets. But 1. It could be worse. It could be galaxies, universes, or basic concepts. 2. Just because a char has that kind of power doesn't necessarily mean they will always use 100% of that power in battle.As for killability,, that problem only exists with toguro, cosmos, and 5. Of course there's najimi, but she's supposed to be near impossible to kill. How else can she defeat op chars besides with all her abilities(which make her near impossible to kill)? And before you bring up darkside, yes, he can die. That doesn't mean it's easy to keep it that way.Movement is where I call bullshit. Going anywhere at any time?? Maybe. But that's if you don't take dimensional locks into account. We rarely use dimensional locks anymore. On an unrelated note I just noticed I added an extra comma and an extra question mark but back to the topic at hand. Another factor is the given "rules" of a dimension. Such "rules" could not only prevent a person from portalling to another dimension, but also prevent them from using their full power, if it allows them to use any amount of their power at all. Which is also why the power level nerfing is not needed.Yes the multiverse is infinite. But the many incarnations of wankerworld wouldn't simplify it. Rather it would be just as infinite. As the incarnations are technically separate dimensions. Much like the dimensions of the multiverse. So what's stopping one incarnation from being the soul eater version of wankerworld. Or the rosario+vampire version? Or God forbid, the d.gray-man version?Midget cannon? Really?Also, don't use the word retarded. I find it offensive, and honestly I don't think it means what you think it means.

i agree with this guy

[supertinyking]

Matt, you tried to limit where we could go before, it didn't work well. I do agree with a power level nerf of sorts, I will admit. And not to be a douche...but you've been notorious for characters who were basically impossible to hit with normal attacks (Case in point with the trio of white beard, solaire, and delta's fight with Solus, a lighting based character able to zip around at nearly the speed of light, and be able to insta-comma anyone without soul based, or lighting based powers. Also, Toguro seems rather difficult to harm with physical attacks.). With me, if I give a character an immunity, it mostly comes at a cost of several weaknesses. Like for example, minx. While lighting, and physical attacks do little, fire, acid, and magic really do a number on her, and if one can get a lighting based attack without her seeing it coming, she might explode!

[thewizardguy]

kishin asura said
Honestly, I don't see anything wrong with hcl at the moment.The power level is fairly good. Sure there are chars that can tear apart planets. But 1. It could be worse. It could be galaxies, universes, or basic concepts. 2. Just because a char has that kind of power doesn't necessarily mean they will always use 100% of that power in battle.As for killability,, that problem only exists with toguro, cosmos, and 5. Of course there's najimi, but she's supposed to be near impossible to kill. How else can she defeat op chars besides with all her abilities(which make her near impossible to kill)? And before you bring up darkside, yes, he can die. That doesn't mean it's easy to keep it that way.Movement is where I call bullshit. Going anywhere at any time?? Maybe. But that's if you don't take dimensional locks into account. We rarely use dimensional locks anymore. On an unrelated note I just noticed I added an extra comma and an extra question mark but back to the topic at hand. Another factor is the given "rules" of a dimension. Such "rules" could not only prevent a person from portalling to another dimension, but also prevent them from using their full power, if it allows them to use any amount of their power at all. Which is also why the power level nerfing is not needed.Yes the multiverse is infinite. But the many incarnations of wankerworld wouldn't simplify it. Rather it would be just as infinite. As the incarnations are technically separate dimensions. Much like the dimensions of the multiverse. So what's stopping one incarnation from being the soul eater version of wankerworld. Or the rosario+vampire version? Or God forbid, the d.gray-man version?Midget cannon? Really?Also, don't use the word retarded. I find it offensive, and honestly I don't think it means what you think it means.

The possibility that things could be worse does in no way mean that things are not bad at the moment. That makes no sense.
A character might not always use their full power, however, that still means that they cannot be defeated by lesser characters. A weaker character cannot achieve anything, and it becomes nearly impossible to involve them in a storyline. Whenever I introduce a bad guy for a low-level good guy, someone like Darkside will simply crush them like an insect. I've tried to create worlds, factions, and stories, but I'm running out of multiverse-threatening bullshit. Anything that isn't at universe-rending levels is pretty much pointless when characters like Najimi exist.

Najimi is retardedly overpowered. The idea that she exists to deal with overpowered characters is cute, but inaccurate. If this was the case, she would not get involved with the storyline whatsoever, except to perform this function. Which would be impossible, as she is your main character. The idea of her dealing with overpowered characters is simply an excuse to have an insanely overpowered character.
Besides, if something truly is gamebreaking and the player refuses to rethink it, which happens almost never, I use Alpha to fix it.

Dimensional locks are another thing. I don't like having a power that everyone is assumed to possess, but dimensional locks are another necessity. I invented them because I needed something to keep people from just leaving any situation that became uncomfortable, but they shouldn't be a necessity for allowing the story to occur. Furthermore, the rules of a dimension? Those haven't been enforced since we left YouTube. And even then, it was done minimalistically. Hell, all universes are sufficiently identical that nobody even tracks in what universe they are. There are no locations, really, locations are determined by where the characters are standing because that's the only interesting thing about them.

Limiting it to a single world would at least give a feeling of scale. There would be individual universes, and like you said, there would be a 'Soul Eater' world, and a 'Rosario Vampire' world, however, it would still be on a single planet. No blasting off into space to go travel the universe. This means that if you deal serious damage to this planet, there is actual consequence. I can no longer have bad guys threaten the hero by blowig up towns or the like, because there's nobody anybody cares about! It used to be the Fairy Tail guild, the reason that so many things happened there was because it was practically the only place more interesting than 'some planet', other than Drac's Lair and Stein's Base.

The midget cannon was a joke. Not a serious proposition. Bob could probably make one if he wanted one, anyway.

I'm not entirely certain what your problem with the word retarded is. I'm quite fond of it myself. However, if you wish, I won't use it ^^

[thewizardguy]

supertinyking said
Matt, you tried to limit where we could go before, it didn't work well. I do agree with a power level nerf of sorts, I will admit. And not to be a douche...but you've been notorious for characters who were basically impossible to hit with normal attacks (Case in point with the trio of white beard, solaire, and delta's fight with Solus, a lighting based character able to zip around at nearly the speed of light, and be able to insta-comma anyone without soul based, or lighting based powers. Also, Toguro seems rather difficult to harm with physical attacks.). With me, if I give a character an immunity, it mostly comes at a cost of several weaknesses. Like for example, minx. While lighting, and physical attacks do little, fire, acid, and magic really do a number on her, and if one can get a lighting based attack without her seeing it coming, she might explode!

Actually, limiting things was one of the few ways I could get a story to work. I had to constantly invent limits in order to create story, from dimensional locks to power limiters to other bullshit, because if I didn't, some characters bullshit power solved everything instantly. The only good stories I have made were created when I added limiters, from Stein being the main baddie to Tsukune dying a hero, it was all brought to you by the power of limits. I made one massive attempt to overhaul HCL, and it failed, and I'm still sorry for that, but if it wasn't for limits, this would be little more than slapstick comedy, and to be taken about as seriously.

Dark Maka (I think that was what Kishin called it?) couldn't be killed by anything, ever, in any way. Soular attacks, lighting, fire, anything. Darkside is unkillable by anything but Soular attacks. Minx has weaknesses to fire and lightning? How? Why? That makes no sense whatsoever. Furthermore, she was hit by natsu's dragonfire when you first created her, and that did absolutely nothing. Drac was unkillable to the extent that he has a higher death rate than Darkside does, and that's impressive.

[kishin asura]

thewizardguy said
Actually, limiting things was one of the few ways I could get a story to work. I had to constantly invent limits in order to create story, from dimensional locks to power limiters to other bullshit, because if I didn't, some characters bullshit power solved everything instantly. The only good stories I have made were created when I added limiters, from Stein being the main baddie to Tsukune dying a hero, it was all brought to you by the power of limits. I made one massive attempt to overhaul HCL, and it failed, and I'm still sorry for that, but if it wasn't for limits, this would be little more than slapstick comedy, and to be taken about as seriously.Dark Maka (I think that was what Kishin called it?) couldn't be killed by anything, ever, in any way. Soular attacks, lighting, fire, anything. Darkside is unkillable by anything but Soular attacks. Minx has weaknesses to fire and lightning? How? Why? That makes no sense whatsoever. Furthermore, she was hit by natsu's dragonfire when you first created her, and that did absolutely nothing. Drac was unkillable to the extent that he has a higher death rate than Darkside does, and that's impressive.

I admit you do have a point. But to be fair, limiters and dimensional locks haven't been used lately

Technically speaking, dark maka could be killed. Think about it. Dark maka is a being of darkness that uses a mixture of soular energy and dark energy alongside her regenerative abilities. Can you tell me what her weakness would be just from that?

[kishin asura]

thewizardguy said
The possibility that things could be worse does in no way mean that things are not bad at the moment. That makes no sense.A character might not always use their full power, however, that still means that they cannot be defeated by lesser characters. A weaker character cannot achieve anything, and it becomes nearly impossible to involve them in a storyline. Whenever I introduce a bad guy for a low-level good guy, someone like Darkside will simply crush them like an insect. I've tried to create worlds, factions, and stories, but I'm running out of multiverse-threatening bullshit. Anything that isn't at universe-rending levels is pretty much pointless when characters like Najimi exist.Najimi is retardedly overpowered. The idea that she exists to deal with overpowered characters is cute, but inaccurate. If this was the case, she would not get involved with the storyline whatsoever, except to perform this function. Which would be impossible, as she is your main character. The idea of her dealing with overpowered characters is simply an excuse to have an insanely overpowered character.Besides, if something truly is gamebreaking and the player refuses to rethink it, which happens almost never, I use Alpha to fix it.Dimensional locks are another thing. I don't like having a power that everyone is assumed to possess, but dimensional locks are another necessity. I invented them because I needed something to keep people from just leaving any situation that became uncomfortable, but they shouldn't be a necessity for allowing the story to occur. Furthermore, the rules of a dimension? Those haven't been enforced since we left YouTube. And even then, it was done minimalistically. Hell, all universes are sufficiently identical that nobody even tracks in what universe they are. There are no locations, really, locations are determined by where the characters are standing because that's the only interesting thing about them.Limiting it to a single world would at least give a feeling of scale. There would be individual universes, and like you said, there would be a 'Soul Eater' world, and a 'Rosario Vampire' world, however, it would still be on a single planet. No blasting off into space to go travel the universe. This means that if you deal serious damage to this planet, there is actual consequence. I can no longer have bad guys threaten the hero by blowig up towns or the like, because there's nobody anybody cares about! It used to be the Fairy Tail guild, the reason that so many things happened there was because it was practically the only place more interesting than 'some planet', other than Drac's Lair and Stein's Base.The midget cannon was a joke. Not a serious proposition. Bob could probably make one if he wanted one, anyway.I'm not entirely certain what your problem with the word retarded is. I'm quite fond of it myself. However, if you wish, I won't use it ^^

Unless of course, the bad guy had an ability that lowered the power level of anyone in the same dimension as they are to human level...... not to give you any ideas

Alright then, consider the following; (not sure if I used the proper punctuation)
there's something truly gamebreaking, the player refuses to rethink it, as this happens you haven't got on yet.

Yeah we should probably enforce the whole rule of a dimension thing more. We really should.

True.... genesis devourer, daemon, genocide, they posed serious threats. The daemon because they were immortal, and could only be slowed down. The genesis devourer because even if it didn't consume the entire multiverse, there would still be a good chance the girl controlling it (forgot her name) would still be able to rewrite the laws of the afterlife, and most likely things would go south from there, or the multiverse from implode. As for genocide, we all know shit will go down unless someone does something when someone is so confident in their power they make it their goal to destroy a concept. Because the multiverse is infinite, a few planets being destroyed is no big deal. But when someone tries do destroy a concept, especially a concept vital to the entire existance of the entire multiverse, you know they mean business. Or if they try to play God and rewrite the laws of the afterlife..... or the daemon.

Speaking of which, no, you are not bringing back the daemon. No. Just no......no..... you are not doing that. Get the idea out of your head.

[ShadowVentus]

A word of advice to Kishin; if you don't want someone to bring something back, don't repetitively mention that one thing. Well, at least, that's my opinion on the matter. Anywho, as for me basically playing the middle man in terms of character strength, I feel some power nerfs are in order, considering a major percentage of the characters created by everyone here can wipe mine out in an instance unless I pull off some sort of bullshit maneuver to where they dodge or survive the onslaught of attacks. Personally, I also would prefer some form of revival system, instead of having most of the current characters be indestructible, immortal or whatever preferred term for their OPness when it comes to being defeated.

Personally, I'd like to think my characters have a form of resistance to some attacks. My first thoughts go toward Atlus' Persona series. While your character may be resistant to fire, they'll be vulnerable to ice. Ergo, since Michael currently uses many shadow-based magic/attacks, he'd be vulnerable to light/holy magic. I'm also positive that characters have emotional weaknesses as well, aside from whether or not their damaged by a specific spell or attack. For example, a character whose loved one has been injured can be enraged to the point where they attack in a blind rage, their accuracy thrown out the window, but their attacks packing an extra punch if they were to meet their mark.

Oh, and that midget cannon joke actually had me crack a smile. Nice one!

[supertinyking]

thewizardguy said
Actually, limiting things was one of the few ways I could get a story to work. I had to constantly invent limits in order to create story, from dimensional locks to power limiters to other bullshit, because if I didn't, some characters bullshit power solved everything instantly. The only good stories I have made were created when I added limiters, from Stein being the main baddie to Tsukune dying a hero, it was all brought to you by the power of limits. I made one massive attempt to overhaul HCL, and it failed, and I'm still sorry for that, but if it wasn't for limits, this would be little more than slapstick comedy, and to be taken about as seriously.Dark Maka (I think that was what Kishin called it?) couldn't be killed by anything, ever, in any way. Soular attacks, lighting, fire, anything. Darkside is unkillable by anything but Soular attacks. Minx has weaknesses to fire and lightning? How? Why? That makes no sense whatsoever. Furthermore, she was hit by natsu's dragonfire when you first created her, and that did absolutely nothing. Drac was unkillable to the extent that he has a higher death rate than Darkside does, and that's impressive.

Minx took massive damage from the fire attack, and using the weaknesses she possessed, they killed her a second time the first time they met. Also, gum, which is what she is made out of has extremely high amounts of sugar, which gives her an high amount of energy. Also, burning her gum makes it so it can no longer mold itself. Lighting has similar effects, but are even more destructive (this was also to prevent her from getting a few more powers she would have otherwise, like force lighting.). You also forget minx's greatest weakness. Acid. Acid destroys her, and was in fact used against her to lead to her second death. (the reason I brought her back was to give them an easy way to stop Darkside's omnicide btw.). Drac's unkillible, but not indestructable. He is dead, but can be destroyed. Wipe out his soul? He's gone for. Bind his soul to something? Now you have Drac the rock, or...what ever you find funny to bind him to. Trap him in a box which prevents a soul from passing out of it without a living body? He is trapped. You must fight him differently, because he is different in the sense he is already dead. As for darkside, I am planning to nerf him......but honestly, I find it funny how he was never intended to get this strong XD *Gives kishin a glance, before holding back a laugh.*

As for limiting where we can go, I do have to say, we do need to nerf teleportation, and portals a good deal. However, making it so people can move about to worlds freely, is in my mind ok. I mean, after we nerf power levels over all, you'd be able to have your destructive big bads again, and make people take notice, or be screwed over (I do say, if someone refuses to team up against a big bad, they sorta deserve getting steam rolled by said big bad.)

[Wraithblade6]

Hi guys. Sorry I've been away. I'm trying to get the motivation to post, but I've been working like crazy and Wow just came out with an expansion.

[Teoinsanity]

Yo wiz , could ya post?

[thewizardguy]

kishin asura said
I admit you do have a point. But to be fair, limiters and dimensional locks haven't been used latelyTechnically speaking, dark maka could be killed. Think about it. Dark maka is a being of darkness that uses a mixture of soular energy and dark energy alongside her regenerative abilities. Can you tell me what her weakness would be just from that?

kishin asura said
Unless of course, the bad guy had an ability that lowered the power level of anyone in the same dimension as they are to human level...... not to give you any ideasAlright then, consider the following; (not sure if I used the proper punctuation)there's something truly gamebreaking, the player refuses to rethink it, as this happens you haven't got on yet.Yeah we should probably enforce the whole rule of a dimension thing more. We really should.True.... genesis devourer, daemon, genocide, they posed serious threats. The daemon because they were immortal, and could only be slowed down. The genesis devourer because even if it didn't consume the entire multiverse, there would still be a good chance the girl controlling it (forgot her name) would still be able to rewrite the laws of the afterlife, and most likely things would go south from there, or the multiverse from implode. As for genocide, we all know shit will go down unless someone does something when someone is so confident in their power they make it their goal to destroy a concept. Because the multiverse is infinite, a few planets being destroyed is no big deal. But when someone tries do destroy a concept, especially a concept vital to the entire existance of the entire multiverse, you know they mean business. Or if they try to play God and rewrite the laws of the afterlife..... or the daemon.Speaking of which, no, you are not bringing back the daemon. No. Just no......no..... you are not doing that. Get the idea out of your head.

Yes, you know what was the last time I used them? Around the Daemon Story Arc, when it got to Pandora's Box. That was the last awesome arc of HCL, and one of my personal favorites, because I actually got people divided on a matter of moral perspective. There was a moral crisis, and people were taking sides. However, it was only possible because I limited the characters, and created characters like Solus, who formed a serious threat.

You know as well as I do that nobody has used divine powers in HCL in the history of EVER. The closest that it came to that is when Creed played Castiel, way back when he was pretty much the only one who watched Supernatural. Furthermore, Dark Maka had her soul, the very essence of her existence, destroyed at least twice. Both times, she managed to come back. Admit it already, that character was fueled, and revived, by Bullshit Power.

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Forcefully powering characters down doesn't tend to work well, in my experience. I tried that with Tsubasa, way back when you guys were chasing Stein. Everyone hated the fact that their characters were 'leveled down', and I got bunches of negative feedback. Furthermore, this would not deal with players' "absolute abilities", which function regardless of power level.

Then I would prefer it if you people were to wait until I got on, or leave the matter to Tyki. I fight the guy a lot, but he's creative, and he's got the second-best Bullshit Detector in the roleplay. Knowing Tyki, he'll usually resolve the matter peacefully, at least as long as he doesn't get pissed. If neither me nor Tyki are on, refer to Tiny, my other Co-GM, for help. He's usually calmer, and he'll tell you to wait for me to appear. I'm almost sure of it. Tiny doesn't like making calls.

The reason I don't want you making these calls is quite frankly because I don't know you as well as I do Tiny and Tyki and even Wraith. You appear in stories inconsistently, and you can be a massive powergamer. You don't have Tyki's sense of balance, nor Tiny's sense of preservation and patience. I've talked to these people extensively, and I've seen both of them in action as GM in my absence. They've earned my trust in these matters. Notice how neither of them has OP characters for the purpose of dealing with bullshit in the story.

If there's a problem in the story, it's not the characters that are an issue. It's the player(s) in question. In those situation one has to talk to the players, either come to a solution, or have someone make a Call. If people don't listen to a GM or Co-GM's Call, then they're out of the story for the time being. Their characters and actions are irrelevant, it's about the story itself, which is handled by the player's words.

The Daemon, if you recall, only threatened a single universe. This was the only Universe that existed, which meant I could establish a couple of solid locations within that universe, such as Pandora's Box, the Clone Empire Home Base, the Afterworld, LON's Palace, and multiple others, like Daemon Prisons. In a Multiverse, these locations would be unfindable among infinite universes, as is our current situation.

The Genesis Devourer was a relatively quick storyline I created in order to get HCL rolling. It was a basic "big bad threatening multiverse" thing. Amusingly enough, many aspects of it inspired my current plot. Looking back, even more than even I had initially realized. The strange magick-y dude that blew up Drac's realm was supposed to be the Avatar of Balance, who had decided that the ultimate balance was absolute nonexistence. If both good and evil were completely annihilated, then there would be absolute balance in the Multiverse. He inspired the modern 'Avatars' of Omega, notably Cosmos.

Genocide..... I'm not even sure what his power is yet. I got no clue what his plan is, and I'm struggling to think of a way to make this more than just another "Oh, beat up the dude with the evil moustache" thing.

And I wouldn't bring back the Daemon, outside of the single universe setting they make no sense.

[thewizardguy]

ShadowVentus said
A word of advice to Kishin; if you don't want someone to bring something back, don't repetitively mention that one thing. Well, at least, that's my opinion on the matter. Anywho, as for me basically playing the middle man in terms of character strength, I feel some power nerfs are in order, considering a major percentage of the characters created by everyone here can wipe mine out in an instance unless I pull off some sort of bullshit maneuver to where they dodge or survive the onslaught of attacks. Personally, I also would prefer some form of revival system, instead of having most of the current characters be indestructible, immortal or whatever preferred term for their OPness when it comes to being defeated. Personally, I'd like to think my characters have a form of resistance to some attacks. My first thoughts go toward Atlus' Persona series. While your character may be resistant to fire, they'll be vulnerable to ice. Ergo, since Michael currently uses many shadow-based magic/attacks, he'd be vulnerable to light/holy magic. I'm also positive that characters have emotional weaknesses as well, aside from whether or not their damaged by a specific spell or attack. For example, a character whose loved one has been injured can be enraged to the point where they attack in a blind rage, their accuracy thrown out the window, but their attacks packing an extra punch if they were to meet their mark. Oh, and that midget cannon joke actually had me crack a smile. Nice one!

Hmm.... when I initially read your post, I instantly rejected the idea of a revival system. I've worked quite hard to stop revival from working, because if characters can just come back, then what's the point of death? There's no threat, and there's no problem in risking your life. There's no.... challenge, as such. However, after thinking for a while, I'm beginning to see how I might be able to make something like a revival system work. There would be ways to break it, of course. Ways to kill another character permanently, and death would be a pain in the ass at least. Players would be removed from the scene, and wouldn't be able to contribute to the rest of the scene. However, this would mean there would be far less need for the absurd levels of defense many players have. Characters could be risked, and fights would definitely have meaning. If I was able to set more focus on objects besides the characters, such as artifacts of power that could be stolen or NPCs that could be harmed, or even the fate of homeworlds that could be thrown out of balance

I'm adding a system like this to my list of ideas, please people give your opinions on these ideas. Making stories is hard, ask Tiny if you don't believe me, and GMing you guys is like herding cats. So I'd like all the help I can get.

About characters having specific strengths and weaknesses, that makes sense to me. If your character is a fire elemental of some kind, like Lisa was, then it wouldn't make any sense for a fireball to do nearly as much to you as a frost bolt. However, I want people to almost always be harmed by physical attacks, and I want special defenses against particular types of attacks to be limited. For example, if you're an undead and resistant to shadow magic, you can still be killed with shadow magic. It's just harder than using other magic, or big sticks. Of course, this is what I believe you meant, so I'm mainly just elaborating.

[thewizardguy]

Ugh, trying to post, but I've been having a terrible cough and headache. Sorry guys, I'm feeling like crap, but I'll post tomorrow.

[ShadowVentus]

Personally, my idea of reviving someone, aside from simply using an item, would be for someone to go on a long arduous journey or fight an extremely hard battle. The other way I can see reviving as challenging is if one were to cast a spell on the fallen character only to basically take their place by having little to energy to fight anyone off, therefore having the newly revived character fight off any threat to their weakened savior.

As for the strength/weaknesses idea, I agree with your view on it. There are a few loopholes to that system, such as wards, enchanted armor, or being able to devour your specific resistant element, like Natsu with fire, but overall, I feel that it works pretty good and can make a difference in battles.