[OOC] World in Revolution: 1861

[The Nexerus]

Pasta Sentient said
Actually they did. "Article 1: It is hereby agreed that ‘Europe’, within its broader definition as encompassing Western Russia and Asia Minor, as well as all the integral lands of the signatories, shall be a region kept free of all war."I think Belgium classifies as Europe, but we will talk later.

Funniest thing, Pasta.

You see, the full extent of Article 1, as shown in the publicly displayed IC post linked here, is as follows: "It is hereby agreed that the signatories will do all in their power to ensure that war on the European continent does not occur."

Are you saying that not only were the smaller European powers not allowed to decide whether or not to sign the treaty, but not even allowed to read it? Are there any more aspects of the ToC not publicly shown, perhaps aspects which might be pertinent to this situation?

[NarcolepticSailor]

The Nexerus said
Funniest thing, Pasta.You see, the full extent of Article 1, as shown in the publicly displayed IC post , is as follows: "It is hereby agreed that the signatories will do all in their power to ensure that war on the European continent does not occur."Are you saying that not only were the smaller European powers not allowed to decide whether or not to sign the treaty, but not even allowed to read it? Are there any more aspects of the ToC not publicly shown, perhaps aspects which might be pertinent to this situation?

A thousand times this.

[So Boerd]

The Nexerus said
Funniest thing, Pasta.You see, the full extent of Article 1, as shown in the publicly displayed IC post , is as follows: "It is hereby agreed that the signatories will do all in their power to ensure that war on the European continent does not occur."Are you saying that not only were the smaller European powers not allowed to decide whether or not to sign the treaty, but not even allowed to read it? Are there any more aspects of the ToC not publicly shown, perhaps aspects which might be pertinent to this situation?

Dun got Perry Mason'd!

[Rare]

Prussia might of defied the ToC. Not the Netherlands, because they didn't sign the treaty at the time.

[The Nexerus]

Rare said
Prussia might of defied the ToC. Not the Netherlands, because they didn't sign the treaty at the time.

Prussia didn't defy the ToC. Even if we ignore whatever secret aspects of the treaty (which Pasta has recently confirmed the existence of) would absolve them of guilt for Belgium, they're ToC's 'neutral mediators' in Europe, as per the publicly displayed Article 2.

Treaty of Constantinople, Article 2 said It is hereby recognised by all the signatories that the Kingdom of Prussia and the Austrian Empire shall act as neutral mediators in Europe when war threatens to erupt, and will do all in their power to uphold Article 1.

Prussia mediated a conflict by intervening in the Dutch-Belgian dispute, acting in accordance with ToC. If Brazil doesn't think Prussia's involvement was legitimate, Brazil's dispute is with the ToC, not Prussia.

[So Boerd]

The Nexerus said
Funniest thing, Pasta.You see, the full extent of Article 1, as shown in the publicly displayed IC post , is as follows: "It is hereby agreed that the signatories will do all in their power to ensure that war on the European continent does not occur."Are you saying that not only were the smaller European powers not allowed to decide whether or not to sign the treaty, but not even allowed to read it? Are there any more aspects of the ToC not publicly shown, perhaps aspects which might be pertinent to this situation?

[Pasta Sentient]

The Nexerus said
Prussia didn't defy the ToC. Even if we ignore whatever secret aspects of the treaty (which Pasta has recently confirmed the existence of) would absolve them of guilt for Belgium, they're ToC's 'neutral mediators' in Europe, as per the publicly displayed Article 2.

Firstly, this is the OOC. Any knowledge gained here about cannot be used ICly unless you have found out ICly through diplomacy etc. Otherwise you're Metagaming.

Secondly, Just because they are neutral mediators does not mean they have carte blanche to ignore Article 1.

"will do all in their power to uphold Article 1. "

By failing to uphold article 1...Prussia will prolly face severe repercussions. But those discussions ICly are forthcoming.

[The Nexerus]

Pasta Sentient said
Firstly, this is the OOC. Any knowledge gained here about cannot be used ICly unless you have found out ICly through diplomacy etc. Otherwise you're Metagaming.

I'm not talking about applying the information IC, I'm just acknowledging OOC to everyone representing a country in Europe that is not a signatory of the ToC that the signatories fucked us over and lied to our faces repeatedly.

Article 2 says that Prussia will do all in their power to uphold Article 1. Article 1 is about preventing war. The Dutch-Belgian dispute started a war. If Prussia hadn't intervened, they would have been breaking the Treaty of Constantinople.

[So Boerd]

"will do all in their power to uphold Article 1."

Prussia believed that a future Flemish revolt in addition to the Belgo-Dutch war would be bloodier and thus resolved the issue in the quickest and most painless fashion. Ripped the band-aid off, if you will.

[Rare]

The Nexerus said
Prussia didn't defy the ToC. Even if we ignore whatever secret aspects of the treaty (which Pasta has recently confirmed the existence of) would absolve them of guilt for Belgium, they're ToC's 'neutral mediators' in Europe, as per the publicly displayed Article 2.

Prussia mediated a conflict by intervening in the Dutch-Belgian dispute, acting in accordance with ToC. If Brazil doesn't think Prussia's involvement was legitimate, Brazil's dispute is with the ToC, not Prussia.

Now, I feel dumb. Sorry about that, Nex and So Boerd. :L

[So Boerd]

Rare said
Now, I feel dumb. Sorry about that, Nex and So Boerd. :L

No problems :)

[Pasta Sentient]

*shakes head*

Article 2: It is hereby recognised by all the signatories that the Kingdom of Prussia and the Austrian Empire shall act as neutral mediators in Europe when war threatens to erupt, and will do all in their power to uphold Article 1.

Neutral Mediators.

There was no mediation. Belgium had not even made any response to Netherlands. You attacked blatantly with Prussia on your side. That is not Neutrality.

[Rare]

I might ask the maker of the ToC (the Ottoman Empire) to investigate the mess, that is going on in Europe.

[So Boerd]

Pasta Sentient said
*shakes head*Article 2: It is hereby recognised by all the signatories that the Kingdom of Prussia and the Austrian Empire shall act as neutral mediators in Europe when war threatens to erupt, and will do all in their power to uphold Article 1.Neutral Mediators.There was no mediation. Belgium had not even made any response to Netherlands. You attacked blatantly with Prussia on your side. That is not Neutrality.

Where this road leads, you won't like, Pasta.

[Rare]

Pasta, you don't need to make a big deal about it. Just ask the Ottoman Empire (since they're the makers of the ToC) to investigate if Prussia's involvement was legitimate.

[The Nexerus]

Pasta Sentient said
*shakes head*Article 2: It is hereby recognised by all the signatories that the Kingdom of Prussia and the Austrian Empire shall act as neutral mediators in Europe when war threatens to erupt, and will do all in their power to uphold Article 1.Neutral Mediators.There was no mediation. Belgium had not even made any response to Netherlands. You attacked blatantly with Prussia on your side. That is not Neutrality.

I advanced into Flanders, a region which I recognized as my own as per the nature of its inhabitants. The Belgians resisted my entry, and an armed conflict ensued. Prussia mediated the crisis through intervention. Are you arguing that "all in their power" does not include military intervention, or is there some secret article written in the ToC which clarifies that?

[So Boerd]

Rare said
Pasta, you don't need to make a big deal about it. Just ask the Ottoman Empire (since they're the makers of the ToC) to investigate if Prussia's involvement was legitimate.

Austria is the other mediator, ask them. Prussia would want to hear Austria advocate for war on a fellow member of the GC for inadvertently closing a major French invasion route into Germany.

[The Nexerus]

Austria /does/ seem rather hostile to German territorial integrity. Perhaps they'd rather have solved the situation by handing Leopold I a few train-loads of Austrian princesses to convince him to stop fighting. Mind you, at least that would have kept him from running to Paris and preventing any possibility of a peace agreement.

[Pasta Sentient]

Eh. This will all play out ICly anyways. No reason to argue over it OOCly when it doesn't effect anything.

[The Nexerus]

Pasta Sentient said
Eh. This will all play out ICly anyways.

I completely agree.