[OOC] World in Revolution: 1861

[Pepperm1nts]

The Quaryans.

[Ampharos]

Pasta Sentient said
If an alien invasion occured at this point in history, our only hope is a War of the Worlds effect. That said I read a great Mass Effect fanfiction that had the Quarian's uplifting humanity during WWII. They sided with the Nazis.

Name and link pls.

[Pepperm1nts]

So, how feasible do you guys think a powerful not-Austria's-bitch Bavaria would be? I did a bit of research on it since it's one of the few non-played nations with some potential in Europe. It seems like Bavaria was strong enough to maintain some semblance of independence even after Prussia took over most of Germany. It makes me wonder if Bavaria could have become a major power if it had played its cards right.

[AegonVI]

Ampharos said
Name and link pls.

[2]

[AegonVI]

Oh no!! My plans with Atlanta completely backfired! DARN IT.

Also, I'm surprised it was technical errors that stopped Alexander. He was great at communication in the real ACW and such...

McClellan almost won, too:/ If I would've held Atlanta one more year, he might've succeeded...

DICE GODS WHY??? THE WITHDRAW FROM ATLANTA WAS A GOOD PLAN!!! WHY DO YOU CURSE ME???

[Pepperm1nts]

AegonVI said
DICE GODS WHY??? THE WITHDRAW FROM ATLANTA WAS A GOOD PLAN!!! WHY DO YOU CURSE ME???

The Gods have spoken.

[Byrd Man]

Holy shit I lost a lot of men. So much for the draft act.

[AegonVI]

Pepperm1nts said
The gods have spoken.

OMG

EDIT: @Byrd, my thought exactly...

[Pasta Sentient]

Uplifted
By Darkdanny
summary: Desperate for an end to the exile, now in it's 47th year, the Quarian Admiralty Board decides on one last audacious plan to destroy the Geth. However, January 1942 in occupied Russia might not be the best place for First Contact with humanity..

It reads less like a lot of other alternate first contacts in that it is not a timeline. All that occurs is almost solely during the War. Also a bit more of a Romance. There are sequels, but I haven't read them yet.

The author does a good job of capturing the WW2 era and even does a good job of explaining why the Quarians side with the NAZis due to political/similar philosophy on society and government

[So Boerd]

Serious though. China and Japan aren't making any sense. You literally JUST fought FFGB three years ago. Why for any reason would you want to hurt their enemies? What dog does Japan have in this fight?

[thorgili]

Why not just screw the slavery admendment and have Lincoln deport the slaves like he originally planned.

[thorgili]

So Boerd said
Serious though. China and Japan aren't making any sense. You literally JUST fought FFGB three years ago. Why for any reason would you want to hurt their enemies? What dog does Japan have in this fight?

Trust me man I said the same thing in my post the Chinese current attempts to bluff me into giving them Manchuria are silly if I wanted (which I dont) I could march into Already war weary china and expect resistance but nothing more than I can handle

[Pasta Sentient]

So Boerd said
Serious though. China and Japan aren't making any sense. You literally JUST fought FFGB three years ago. Why for any reason would you want to hurt their enemies? What dog does Japan have in this fight?

It's been 3 years and since then China/FFGB have been working to heal the rifts. In addition, China most likely sees the war in Europe as an opportunity to take back lands From Russia. It is opportunistic. Also since Japan is allies with China, they will join them to get a piece of the Russian pie.

[MagnificentOne]

So Boerd said
Serious though. China and Japan aren't making any sense. You literally JUST fought FFGB three years ago. Why for any reason would you want to hurt their enemies? What dog does Japan have in this fight?

It is a historical fact that the Qing entered into an "informal alliance" of sorts with the British and the French immediately in the aftermath of the Second Opium War in light of the Self-Strengthening movement. Friendly relations was seen as the way to both keep the westerners happy and to begin a proper modernisation of the dynasty. As it was, British and French generals served in the Qing Army during the Taiping Rebellion alongside other tremendous aid given by the westerners, and several governmental occupations were held by British officials. It was in the aftermath of the Second Opium War that Prince Gong alongside a great many other Qing officials popularised having friendly relations with them based on trade and equality, and actively pursued a policy of reconciliation with the western powers. Newspaper reported as early as 1862 that these relations were 'established based on foundations of friendship’ and the Imperial Court both displayed a friendly relations with the British and French, as well as consulting with them over difficult matters.

On the other hand, the signing away of Outer Manchuria to the Russians was an act undertaken under Russian coercion during the Second Opium War, and was considered by the Xianfeng Emperor to merely be time-saving measure before dealing with the Russians more firmly when the appropriate time came. Sadly for the Chinese, that opportunity never arrived - but in a reality where Russia had declared a sphere of influence over the Qing's gigantic ego, and are now a tad busy elsewhere (much like when they grabbed Outer Manchuria from China), the opportunity to begin the reclamation of land lost merely five years ago and prove that they are not merely a Russian subject is ripe. I do not believe irredentism over the homeland of the Qing nor anger at perceived insults are invalid casus belli as of the late 19th century.

As for Japan; it is no secret that Japan is also wary of Russian expansionism in Asia ever since the latter half of the 19th century. An unequal treaty was forced upon Japan by the Russians, and the Russians had been involved in several territorial disputes with Japan ranging from Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands, to an attempt to establish a naval port in the Japanese island of Tsushima in March 1861. Despite the presence of British warships alongside the Japanese, the Russians began to clash and were finally evicted by September. My knowledge on Japan is not as extensive as that of China, but it would seem to me that the Russians have not proven themselves to be the best of friends as compared to the British.

A Sino-Japanese alliance between these two culturally similar nations - who only fought a war once - in the light of recent Russian expansionism is probably just as odd as the British and French coming to some kind of alliance after 22+ wars, or the Germans and French coming together to lead Europe in some bizarre kind of friendly union. ;)

[Flooby Badoop]

Pepperm1nts said
So, how feasible do you guys think a powerful not-Austria's-bitch Bavaria would be? I did a bit of research on it since it's one of the few non-played nations with some potential in Europe. It seems like Bavaria was strong enough to maintain some semblance of independence even after Prussia took over most of Germany. It makes me wonder if Bavaria could have become a major power if it had played its cards right.

As a man who knows a bit of Bavarian history in the middle ages, can confirm.

I probably don't need to tell you this, but this wikipedia link is a decent start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bavaria.

I also know there's a book written by a 16th century historian that covers its history in the middle ages, but I'll be damned if I can remember the name. I'll google hunt it down, but suffice it to say, the Wittelsbachs and their predecessors played their cards differently, not necessarily badly.

EDIT: Johannes Aventinus, Annals of Bavaria. Excellent source, if you can get it. I had access to a scanned copy from my university library, but I don't think it's widely available to the public. Truly though, one amazing source.

On the other hand, the signing away of Outer Manchuria to the Russians was an act undertaken under Russian coercion during the Second Opium War, and was considered by the Xianfeng Emperor to merely be time-saving measure before dealing with the Russians more firmly when the appropriate time came. Sadly for the Chinese, that opportunity never arrived - but in a reality where Russia had declared a sphere of influence over the Qing's gigantic ego, and are now a tad busy elsewhere (much like when they grabbed Outer Manchuria from China), the opportunity to begin the reclamation of land lost merely five years ago and prove that they are not merely a Russian subject is ripe. I do not believe irredentism over the homeland of the Qing nor anger at perceived insults are invalid casus belli as of the late 19th century.

Typical Asian, always doing all their homework!

*laugh track*

*crickets from audience*

*akward throat-clearing*

Eh-heh-heh, t-th-that's all, folks!

*runs off the stage*

[NarcolepticSailor]

Pasta Sentient said
It's been 3 years and since then China/FFGB have been working to heal the rifts. In addition, China most likely sees the war in Europe as an opportunity to take back lands From Russia. It is opportunistic. Also since Japan is allies with China, they will join them to get a piece of the Russian pie.

Are we ignoring the fact that the Taiping Rebellion had just ended as well and that the people of China probably aren't exactly keen on angering a power which not only have access to far better technology than they do in a military conflict, but can very easily dispatch a relatively small force to hold them back with. Even in a hypothetical situation where the Chinese/Japanese did win, they'd have suffered so many multiple losses in the process of doing so in an already unstable nation.

[The Nexerus]

The first battle between China and Japan occurred in the 7th century. Combine conflicts over Korea, piracy and islands in the East China Sea, and you're left with a long standing history of mutual contempt. Coming out of the isolationist period, Japan has no reason for cool relations with any country, spare China. Instead, China is now their foremost ally and war partner.

Incidentally MagnificientOne, I completely agree that an alliance between Britain and France is almost as silly.

[Ampharos]

I don't complain about alliances in this game for the same reason I don't complain about how they work in Victoria 2. I don't really care about being super accurate, and it's fairly logical for people to align with people who they have similar interests regardless of whether or not there's bad history between the two states that they may or may not know about.

This is somewhat unrealistic, sure but not nuclear weapons unrealistic. Plus, Outcast knew about this alliance in advance, as long as he gives the okay, I don't care. I'm just in it to play a game.

[AegonVI]

@Byrd, you never took entire control of the Mississippi...

[The Nexerus]

Ampharos said
I don't complain about alliances in this game for the same reason I don't complain about how they work in Victoria 2. I don't really care about being super accurate, and it's fairly logical for people to align with people who they have similar interests regardless of whether or not there's bad history between the two states that they may or may not know about.This is somewhat unrealistic, sure but not nuclear weapons unrealistic. Plus, Outcast knew about this alliance in advance, as long as he gives the okay, I don't care. I'm just in it to play a game.

It's possible to both tolerate something and express concerns about it simultaneously.