Factored in pyment for my ~5,000 troops (damn, remember the good ol' days when Pelly had but a thousand?). The CS should be all set now.
FortunesFaded Yam
Member
Seen
4 mos ago
OP
Flooby Badoop
Member
Seen
6 yrs ago
So I see.
Yeah, not going to lie mate, I expected MouseKing to bulldoze your ass last time. You're a much more formidable force now.
Yeah, not going to lie mate, I expected MouseKing to bulldoze your ass last time. You're a much more formidable force now.
FortunesFaded Yam
Member
Seen
4 mos ago
Yeah, you're probably right haha. The only advantage I had was that he was inactive ;)
King Solterra My Kingdom
Member
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4 yrs ago
New and Improved Auto-Taxes!
Oh, you wanted some extra armor? Don't go bankrupt! Instantly know whether you can afford them!
Needing more men for the war!? Instantly know if your food storage can handle it!
Get them while they are hot!
Disclaimer: Product shown is the dirty display model, request one today and it will be clean and accurate!
Oh, you wanted some extra armor? Don't go bankrupt! Instantly know whether you can afford them!
Needing more men for the war!? Instantly know if your food storage can handle it!
Get them while they are hot!
Disclaimer: Product shown is the dirty display model, request one today and it will be clean and accurate!
Heyitsjiwon
Member
Seen
4 yrs ago
Name of Lord or Lady: Lord Lothar Wolff
Fiefs:
1. Attolia (15 Points)
-Fair (.7%)
-Population: 18,000
-Some Resources (+7,000 Bullis)
-Advanced Infrastructure (+600 Crops, 1,500 Bullis, +.2%)
-Great Manor
-Great Wall
-Crops per Person: 4.6
- Tax per Annum: 18,000+7,000+1,500= 26500
2. Dawn (11 Points)
-Fair (.7%)
-Population: 18,000
-No Resources
-Advanced Infrastructure (+600 Crops, 1,500 Bullis, +.2%)
-Stone Manor
-Stone Wall
-4.6 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 19,500
3. Aegis (11 Points)
-Fair (.7%)
-Population: 18,000
-No Resources
-Advanced Infrastructure (+600 Crops, 1,500 Bullis, +.2%)
-Stone Manor
-Stone Wall
-4.6 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 19,500
4. Tara (2 points)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 4,000
-No Resources
-Improved Infrastructure (+200 Crops, +500 Bullis, +.1%)
-Wooden Manor
-No Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax Per Annum: 4,500
5. Barris (2 points)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 4,000
-No Resources
-Improved Infrastructure (+200 Crops, +500 Bullis, +.1%)
-Wooden Manor
-No Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax Per Annum: 4,500
6. Westfield (2 points)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 4,000
-No Resources
-Improved Infrastructure (+200 Crops, +500 Bullis, +.1%)
-Wooden Manor
-No Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax Per Annum: 4,500
7. Munster (2 points)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 4,000
-No Resources
-Improved Infrastructure (+200 Crops, +500 Bullis, +.1%)
-Wooden Manor
-No Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax Per Annum: 4,500
8. Concord (2 points)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 4,000
-No Resources
-Improved Infrastructure (+200 Crops, +500 Bullis, +.1%)
-Wooden Manor
-No Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax Per Annum: 4,500
9. Peshton (2 points)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 4,000
-No Resources
-Improved Infrastructure (+200 Crops, +500 Bullis, +.1%)
-Wooden Manor
-No Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax Per Annum: 4,500
10. Worcester (2 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 4,000
-No Resources
-Improved Infrastructure (+200 Crops, +500 Bullis, +.1%)
-Wooden Manor
-No Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax Per Annum: 4,500
11. Abel (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
12. Seval (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
13. Faxton (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
14. Stratford (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
15. Essex (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
16. Wessex (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
17. Kent (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
18. Sussex (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
19. Bergen (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
20. Middleton (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
21. Somerset (3 Point)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population: 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-Wooden Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3,000
22. Avon (1)
-Scrubland (.3%)
-Population 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-No Wall
-4.2 Crops per Person
-Tax Per Annum: 3,000
23. Ridgewood (1)
-Scrubland(.3%)
-Population 3000
-No Resources
-Basic Infrastructure
-Wooden Manor
-No Wall
-4.2 Crops Per Person
-Tax per Annum: 3000
Fief Name: Fertility (Growth Bonus provided by Fertility), Population, Resources (Income Provided by Resources), Infrastructure (Crops, Income, and Growth Provided by Infrastructure), Manor and Castle Options, Crops Produced Per Person, Total Fief Tax per Annum
Towns:
Attolia
-Population: 1,000
-Fair
-Attolia
-4 Bullis per Person
Military:
Standing Army:
500 Sentinels:
-Sword Sword
-Horse
-Spear
-Bow
-Leather Armor
450 Axe Bearers
-Axe
Leather Armor with Iron Buckler
150 Marines
-Axe
-Bow
-Leather Armor with Wooden Shield
5 Great Galley
Reserve Weapons/Armor/Etc.
500 Pikes
1000 Axes
500 Long Bows
1000 Daggers
20 Ballista
2000 Leather Armor
20 Long Boats
10 Great Galley
5 War Galley
Cost:61,750
Upkeep: 7500 + 1100 = 8600
Royal Court: (Spent 1 point for +12 Family points)
Adolescent Son (5)
Caelis - Age 15
Heir
Child Daughter (3)
Aria - Age 10
Elderly Uncle (3)
Heinrich - 44
Court Chaplin
Adult Courtier (4)
William Coyle - 32
Steward
Elderly Courtier (3)
Thomas Nast - 47
Court Jester/Adviser
Young Courtier (3)
Richard Peterson - 24
Sergeant at Arms
Young Courtier (3)
Helen Ainsworth - 19
Lady in Waiting
Optional Concerns:
List any taken optional concerns.
Original Receipts:
Total Population:
121,000
Population Living in Towns:
1,000
Crops Produced per Annum:
494,000+25200+9200=528,400
Total Growth Bonus:
9.4%
Income per Annum:
121,000
Current Treasury:
69,450
House History:
The House of Wolff has a deep history in Lundland. One of Overlord Aella's officers, Alexander Wolff, the founder of the House of Wolff and Lothar's great grandfather, distinguished himself through battle under the banner of House Trisch. He was also a notable patron of the church. In fact, when given his title, Alexander gave some of his fiefs to the church to allow it to grow and establish a great presence in Lundland by being able to appoint more Bishops. Unfortunately, it appeared that this generous gift turned to bite Alexander in the arse. As the church grew stronger, it distanced itself from the Master. As generations passed, the close relation between the church of Lundland and the family has cooled, and can be said to be merely be cordial now. In regards to the current political situation, the House of Wolff has been quite neutral. Although it doesn't call itself the Duchy of Attolia as it was once called, the House of Wolff also refrains from calling itself a Kingdom. In fact, in all writing, the House of Wolff uses either its House name or an ambiguous term like The Lord of Attolia.
House Coat of Arms
Dei Gratia Probemur Rebus - 'By the grace of God, let us be judged by our deeds'.
Hey, I have a few questions. First, what's the scale of the map provided? And what exactly is a good measure for the size of a kingdom, and is there variance - i.e. ups and downs for claiming more or less land at the start?
On religion, is it mandatory that the kingdom be in allegiance with the church? I'm entertaining the idea of developing a separate mythology and religion that my somewhat distant realm would cultivate, which would evidently put it at odds with the established church and its adherents, but it's a risk I am willing to take. If I may create my own faith, we could even see some interesting dynamic perhaps with missionairies being sent from or to my yet unnamed kingdom.
On religion, is it mandatory that the kingdom be in allegiance with the church? I'm entertaining the idea of developing a separate mythology and religion that my somewhat distant realm would cultivate, which would evidently put it at odds with the established church and its adherents, but it's a risk I am willing to take. If I may create my own faith, we could even see some interesting dynamic perhaps with missionairies being sent from or to my yet unnamed kingdom.
Heyitsjiwon
Member
Seen
4 yrs ago
I can answer a few of those questions:
Scale: It's.... big. Bigger than France and the lowlands combined. I think it was something like more than 200,000+ acres?
Size: It's up to you. The stats are given in the rules, so it's up to you. Do you want a small, very developed nation? Or a large, agricultural nation? They both have ups and downs depending on how you set up your nation as the stats explain.
The church is... not really a unified church. Our church is a splinter group kind of like how the Anglican Church left the Catholic Church. So, it's not an Almighty - global entity. That being said. They are one of the more powerful factions in Lundland. They will be stronger than any one player at the beginning of the RP since they have autonomy over their own lands, and they own a lot.
Scale: It's.... big. Bigger than France and the lowlands combined. I think it was something like more than 200,000+ acres?
Size: It's up to you. The stats are given in the rules, so it's up to you. Do you want a small, very developed nation? Or a large, agricultural nation? They both have ups and downs depending on how you set up your nation as the stats explain.
The church is... not really a unified church. Our church is a splinter group kind of like how the Anglican Church left the Catholic Church. So, it's not an Almighty - global entity. That being said. They are one of the more powerful factions in Lundland. They will be stronger than any one player at the beginning of the RP since they have autonomy over their own lands, and they own a lot.
Thanks for the answers so far! About kingdom sizes, what you say makes sense, but it's all very vague in the rules as far as I understand it. The size a fiefdom covers isn't really detailed, and neither is how the number and size thereof corresponds to your size on the actual map. Like I could circle a huge swathe of land, but only divide it into like 3 or so fiefdoms, or in turn, I could claim that tiny island in the north and have about 20 fiefdoms or so on it - and the fiefdoms should, in theory, operate with the same efficiency regardless of their span on the map. Sure, I'll try to employ common sense, as should anyone, but it's got me wondering a little on how to handle it, particularly since the scale of the map is also pretty vague (having a scale indicator in a corner would be helpful in that regard).
That's an interesting detail about the church being a splinter group. With then owning so much land and power, I imagine they are still kind of like a substitute for the vatican in this RP, and it's not far fetched to think that they would treat faiths that are entirely apart from their divine canon as pagan heathens.
That's an interesting detail about the church being a splinter group. With then owning so much land and power, I imagine they are still kind of like a substitute for the vatican in this RP, and it's not far fetched to think that they would treat faiths that are entirely apart from their divine canon as pagan heathens.
Heyitsjiwon
Member
Seen
4 yrs ago
Ahh, each fief is a certain size as well... except I forgot exactly big. I think it was around 200 acres each. However, don't quote me on it.
Cool, that helps a lot for starters. Regardless of how correct that number is, it's a good mean value to work with, and if I overlayed a map of france over the map we have, it would be a lot easier to figure out realistic kingdom sizes. Thanks ^o^
ulsterwarrior
Member
Seen
7 yrs ago
Hey, I wondering something. My nation, The Ironstone Isle, is very small on that islandI'm only having three fiefs, and they soil is very infertile. Due to this, they are a nmore militaristic people, like the Vikings. I'm still adding up the points, but if I have a good amount left over(20+), would it be acceptable if I added it to my military? Or no, just add up my wealth as best I can?
Heyitsjiwon
Member
Seen
4 yrs ago
I mean... even if you add to your military how do you expect to pay for all that?
Oooookay, hang on guys. So I spent the last few hours doing some intense math wizardry, trying to understand the system, and I have come to the conclusion that it's... extremely difficult to have a positive crops production to consumption end result. Especially when you have a town where people live but do not produce, it becomes very problematic without commanding vast farmlands (which would ideally be maintained by robots). Now I want to believe that I am making some kind of mistake and that Flooby can enlighten me, but until then, here's my calculations and why they are problematic.
Okay, first of all, let us assume a kingdom with 2 fiefdoms, defined as follows:
Fiefdoms
Exampleton; Fair
Population - 18.000 Inhabitants (9.000 countryside, 9.000 in Alicefield)
Resources - None
Infrastructure - Advanced
Lord's Demesne - Wooden Manor, No Wall
Harvest Output - 42.000 Crops per annum
Tax Income - 10.500b per annum
Point Cost - 6
Instancia; Fair
Population - 18.000 Inhabitants
Resources - None
Infrastructure - Advanced
Lord's Demesne - Wooden Manor, No Wall
Harvest Output - 83.400 Crops per annum
Tax Income - 19.500b per annum
Point Cost - 6
Towns
Alicefield; in Exampleton
Population - 9.000 Inhabitants
Wealth - Fair
Tax Income - 36.000b per annum
Point Cost - 21
So, we have two fair provinces, both costing relatively little since I ignored resources and manor options, as neither has an impact on crops production or consumption. We also have a reasonably expensive town producing a nice amount of bullis per annum (even though they are not too efficient, because they only produce ~1714b per annum per point cost, wheras a 1 point Sparse Resources investment yields 3000b per annum, as does a 1 point scrubland fiefdom with 3000 peasants...), meaning we have a total population of:
36.000 inhabitants, of which 9.000 are citizens.
Let's do the math on consumption, shall we?
36.000 inhabitants consume 36.000 crops per season, yes? Since consumption is seasonal, and not annual (this, in my opinion, is where the problem lies), we'll do the calculation on a seasonal basis. Instancia and Exampleton produce 125.400 crops per annum total. When totaled up against 36.000 eaters, that doesn't sound too bad, until you make the numbers seasonal, ergo divide by 4. That means 31.350 crops are produced per season.
31.350 Crops produced per season
- 36.000 Eaters
-4650 Crops Lack
As you can see, our population is, in fact, starving. Obviously, every peasant can feed himself; he needs to produce 4 crops per annum in order to feed only himself, and he produces 4.2 at worst on a scrubland, so the problem lies in the peasant to citizen ratio. Bear in mind that soldiers also do not produce food, and only make the problem worse; for convenience sake, I did not include them here. So in order to find out what the perfect ratio would be, I had to calculate how many citizens one peasant could feed, since he produces more than 4 crops per annum. Let's do the math for a fair fiefdom:
A peasant produces 4.6 crops per annum, meaning that's 0.6 crops he does not consume himself and is therefore in surplus. Now at first I thought "hey, that means he can feed 0.6 citizens! meaning that 5 peasants could feed 3 citizens!" But no, that calculation is in fact not correct, since, again, you must think in seasons. That means that 0.6 just gets divided by 4, and thus results in 0,15. One peasant on a fair land can feed 0.15 citizens, ergo 10 peasants can feed 1.5 citizens (and it takes at least 7 to sustain one). Again, bear in mind that when I say "citizens", that also counts soldiers since they function the same in this matter. So what this means is, in order to have a stable food economy, you need to take the sum of all your non-peasants, and add their number times 7 as peasants onto fair fields, in order to not starve. This ratio gets even more terrible on less fertile soil. One peasant on scrubland can feed 0,05 citizens, so it would take 20 peasants to feed one citizen or soldier.
If we stick with fair land ratios, and try to make my kingdom above work, let's assume I have no soldiers and only want to feed my 9000 inhabitants strong town. In order to do that, I will need 63000 peasants working on fair lands at all times. We would receive the following table:
72.450 Crops produced per season
- 72.000 Eaters
+450 Crops Surplus
As you can see, this works. However, that's a lot of peasants, it's actually 3.5 full fair fiefdoms (like Instancia), not counting the 600 crops bonus you get from advanced infrastructure (which, since you'd need 4 fiefdoms, would result in 2400 extra crops I guess). This leaves just barely enough surplus to laboriously build up a stock, that will probably be gone in about 1 or 2 seasons as soon as you raise an army or hire hungry mercenaries.
Now, at the end of it all, my question is: Am I making a mistake here? Has anyone else noticed this? Is this how it is supposed to be? If yes, are towns really worth it? As I pointed out earlier in brackets, towns aren't even very point efficient when it comes to producing bullis through taxes. Granted, I have not accounted for trade tariffs as far as income goes, as I haven't spent time with that yet, but I can only hope that the benefits outweigh having to support a single town with about 2 to 4 fiefdoms worth of peasants. Even then, I cannot see how anyone can sustain a war for more than a season or two without forcing peasants or soldiers to not eat anymore.
If you read all of that, thank you very much! I'd like to say that I hope I didn't come across as negative, or hostile, or any of that. It's just an observation of mine, and as someone who loves game design probably as much as the OP, I feel it's something that should be brought to light. Please let me know what you think.
While at the math... before I though about food, I quickly considered the whole scale thing I talked about earlier. I came to some similarly disturbing results, but as Heyitsjiwon said, he wasn't sure on the 200 acre measure. I'll quickly elaborate my points; trust me, it's less expansive than the whole exposition on food just now.
So a province is 200 acres, right? I looked up an acre and it's uh, roughly 0.004 square km, or 0.0015 square miles for you Americans. That's not terribly much, all things considered. So I overlayed a map of france over Lundland and essentially translated the scale of that map 1:1 onto Lundland's map. I adjusted the size of the scale a little, making it slightly smaller. In order to better demonstrate my point, here's the map:
The map should pretty much demonstrate why 200 acres feels a little small. An acre is essentially a square of 70x70 meters, less even than that, and a kilometers is 1000 meter, long. 200 of them would then be, if we try to keep the perfect square shape makes for a side length of about 14 acres worth, ergo 980 meters, which feels totally wrong, and I am awful at calculating surfaces apparently. Still, try to imagine a square kilometer on the map, using the scale I added... you'd hardly see it, and you could fit quit multiple fiefdoms into that, apparently. This feels really wrong on my part, but I can't really justify the numbers otherwise, without significantly reducing the scale of Lundland (which is said to be even larger than France). In light of this, either 200 acres cannot be right, or (and this is much more likely), I have no idea how to do math with surfaces and acres.
Thanks again!
Okay, first of all, let us assume a kingdom with 2 fiefdoms, defined as follows:
Exampleton; Fair
Population - 18.000 Inhabitants (9.000 countryside, 9.000 in Alicefield)
Resources - None
Infrastructure - Advanced
Lord's Demesne - Wooden Manor, No Wall
Harvest Output - 42.000 Crops per annum
Tax Income - 10.500b per annum
Point Cost - 6
Instancia; Fair
Population - 18.000 Inhabitants
Resources - None
Infrastructure - Advanced
Lord's Demesne - Wooden Manor, No Wall
Harvest Output - 83.400 Crops per annum
Tax Income - 19.500b per annum
Point Cost - 6
Alicefield; in Exampleton
Population - 9.000 Inhabitants
Wealth - Fair
Tax Income - 36.000b per annum
Point Cost - 21
So, we have two fair provinces, both costing relatively little since I ignored resources and manor options, as neither has an impact on crops production or consumption. We also have a reasonably expensive town producing a nice amount of bullis per annum (even though they are not too efficient, because they only produce ~1714b per annum per point cost, wheras a 1 point Sparse Resources investment yields 3000b per annum, as does a 1 point scrubland fiefdom with 3000 peasants...), meaning we have a total population of:
36.000 inhabitants, of which 9.000 are citizens.
Let's do the math on consumption, shall we?
36.000 inhabitants consume 36.000 crops per season, yes? Since consumption is seasonal, and not annual (this, in my opinion, is where the problem lies), we'll do the calculation on a seasonal basis. Instancia and Exampleton produce 125.400 crops per annum total. When totaled up against 36.000 eaters, that doesn't sound too bad, until you make the numbers seasonal, ergo divide by 4. That means 31.350 crops are produced per season.
31.350 Crops produced per season
- 36.000 Eaters
-4650 Crops Lack
As you can see, our population is, in fact, starving. Obviously, every peasant can feed himself; he needs to produce 4 crops per annum in order to feed only himself, and he produces 4.2 at worst on a scrubland, so the problem lies in the peasant to citizen ratio. Bear in mind that soldiers also do not produce food, and only make the problem worse; for convenience sake, I did not include them here. So in order to find out what the perfect ratio would be, I had to calculate how many citizens one peasant could feed, since he produces more than 4 crops per annum. Let's do the math for a fair fiefdom:
A peasant produces 4.6 crops per annum, meaning that's 0.6 crops he does not consume himself and is therefore in surplus. Now at first I thought "hey, that means he can feed 0.6 citizens! meaning that 5 peasants could feed 3 citizens!" But no, that calculation is in fact not correct, since, again, you must think in seasons. That means that 0.6 just gets divided by 4, and thus results in 0,15. One peasant on a fair land can feed 0.15 citizens, ergo 10 peasants can feed 1.5 citizens (and it takes at least 7 to sustain one). Again, bear in mind that when I say "citizens", that also counts soldiers since they function the same in this matter. So what this means is, in order to have a stable food economy, you need to take the sum of all your non-peasants, and add their number times 7 as peasants onto fair fields, in order to not starve. This ratio gets even more terrible on less fertile soil. One peasant on scrubland can feed 0,05 citizens, so it would take 20 peasants to feed one citizen or soldier.
If we stick with fair land ratios, and try to make my kingdom above work, let's assume I have no soldiers and only want to feed my 9000 inhabitants strong town. In order to do that, I will need 63000 peasants working on fair lands at all times. We would receive the following table:
72.450 Crops produced per season
- 72.000 Eaters
+450 Crops Surplus
As you can see, this works. However, that's a lot of peasants, it's actually 3.5 full fair fiefdoms (like Instancia), not counting the 600 crops bonus you get from advanced infrastructure (which, since you'd need 4 fiefdoms, would result in 2400 extra crops I guess). This leaves just barely enough surplus to laboriously build up a stock, that will probably be gone in about 1 or 2 seasons as soon as you raise an army or hire hungry mercenaries.
Now, at the end of it all, my question is: Am I making a mistake here? Has anyone else noticed this? Is this how it is supposed to be? If yes, are towns really worth it? As I pointed out earlier in brackets, towns aren't even very point efficient when it comes to producing bullis through taxes. Granted, I have not accounted for trade tariffs as far as income goes, as I haven't spent time with that yet, but I can only hope that the benefits outweigh having to support a single town with about 2 to 4 fiefdoms worth of peasants. Even then, I cannot see how anyone can sustain a war for more than a season or two without forcing peasants or soldiers to not eat anymore.
If you read all of that, thank you very much! I'd like to say that I hope I didn't come across as negative, or hostile, or any of that. It's just an observation of mine, and as someone who loves game design probably as much as the OP, I feel it's something that should be brought to light. Please let me know what you think.
While at the math... before I though about food, I quickly considered the whole scale thing I talked about earlier. I came to some similarly disturbing results, but as Heyitsjiwon said, he wasn't sure on the 200 acre measure. I'll quickly elaborate my points; trust me, it's less expansive than the whole exposition on food just now.
So a province is 200 acres, right? I looked up an acre and it's uh, roughly 0.004 square km, or 0.0015 square miles for you Americans. That's not terribly much, all things considered. So I overlayed a map of france over Lundland and essentially translated the scale of that map 1:1 onto Lundland's map. I adjusted the size of the scale a little, making it slightly smaller. In order to better demonstrate my point, here's the map:
The map should pretty much demonstrate why 200 acres feels a little small. An acre is essentially a square of 70x70 meters, less even than that, and a kilometers is 1000 meter, long. 200 of them would then be, if we try to keep the perfect square shape makes for a side length of about 14 acres worth, ergo 980 meters, which feels totally wrong, and I am awful at calculating surfaces apparently. Still, try to imagine a square kilometer on the map, using the scale I added... you'd hardly see it, and you could fit quit multiple fiefdoms into that, apparently. This feels really wrong on my part, but I can't really justify the numbers otherwise, without significantly reducing the scale of Lundland (which is said to be even larger than France). In light of this, either 200 acres cannot be right, or (and this is much more likely), I have no idea how to do math with surfaces and acres.
Thanks again!
ulsterwarrior
Member
Seen
7 yrs ago
Yeah, that's the problem also, with the arming the military. It says 5/1. Does it mean 5 Bullis for every man, or 5 men for every 1 Bullis?
5/1 means 5 bullies to buy the equipment in the first place, and the 1 is the upkeep cost you must pay... each season I suppose. Or annually. Either way it's a recurring cost. The costs listed are per weapon, or per man.
OP
Flooby Badoop
Member
Seen
6 yrs ago
I can answer all your questions, Ash.
Lundland is approximately 200,000 sq. miles, not acres. In the last game, fief size on the map was entirely arbitrary, due to the map needing to be made very quickly after our map guy flaked out. This time, I plan on having each's player's fief roughly correspond with something logical.
Using medieval technology and agricultural methods, a square mile of land could expect to support 180 people, if the land was fertile. Lundland isn't very fertile, and more comparable with England, so a single square mile will likely support 100 people. Infertile land will likely only support 50 people per sq. mile, and scrubland 30 at the most. This in mind, each Fair fief will likely be 250 sq. miles, an Infertile fief 140, and scrubland 100. It's no perfect measurement, but it'll do for our purposes. If the map doesn't fill out completely, fief sizes will be changed to fit the mould.
As for crop production, you're right, and that's the point. People aren't supposed to have numerous large towns. The largest town a single Fair fief could support on its own would be 1000. But we're assuming here that you have multiple fiefs with which to help feed your non-town population and soldiers, which is why it is sometimes necessary to forgo more elite fiefs in favour of more numerous, lesser quality fiefs.
If you wanted to sustain a town of 6000, then you'd need a total population of 40,000 people living in Fair fiefs.
Also as an aside, 1 sq. mile is about 640 acres, if'n I'm not mistaken.
EDIT: Ashgan's right, it takes 5 bullis to buy the thingy, and 1 bulli in upkeep to maintain it for every season the levy is raised.
And yes ulster, just add up your wealth as best you can. Unless you elect to play a mercenary group, there's no way you can use points to directly contribute to your military.
Lundland is approximately 200,000 sq. miles, not acres. In the last game, fief size on the map was entirely arbitrary, due to the map needing to be made very quickly after our map guy flaked out. This time, I plan on having each's player's fief roughly correspond with something logical.
Using medieval technology and agricultural methods, a square mile of land could expect to support 180 people, if the land was fertile. Lundland isn't very fertile, and more comparable with England, so a single square mile will likely support 100 people. Infertile land will likely only support 50 people per sq. mile, and scrubland 30 at the most. This in mind, each Fair fief will likely be 250 sq. miles, an Infertile fief 140, and scrubland 100. It's no perfect measurement, but it'll do for our purposes. If the map doesn't fill out completely, fief sizes will be changed to fit the mould.
As for crop production, you're right, and that's the point. People aren't supposed to have numerous large towns. The largest town a single Fair fief could support on its own would be 1000. But we're assuming here that you have multiple fiefs with which to help feed your non-town population and soldiers, which is why it is sometimes necessary to forgo more elite fiefs in favour of more numerous, lesser quality fiefs.
If you wanted to sustain a town of 6000, then you'd need a total population of 40,000 people living in Fair fiefs.
Also as an aside, 1 sq. mile is about 640 acres, if'n I'm not mistaken.
EDIT: Ashgan's right, it takes 5 bullis to buy the thingy, and 1 bulli in upkeep to maintain it for every season the levy is raised.
And yes ulster, just add up your wealth as best you can. Unless you elect to play a mercenary group, there's no way you can use points to directly contribute to your military.
All right, thanks Flooby. So those scale measures make a lot more sense; if you consider that 1 sq. mile is 640 acres, and the original estimation for a fiefdom was 200 acres, that's quite the difference to your statement of them being actually 250 sq. miles. These numbers work much better.
I'm not a historical expert, so maybe I'm just overestimating township sizes in the middle ages, but I'll bear that in mind, and be more wary of population numbers. I looked at some of the other sheets, and noticed a town of about 10.000 inhabitants, so that's where my original estimations for the size of a capital came from.
By the way, is it possible to buy crops from other actors? Also, is food production solely based on agriculture, or is "crops" merely a generalizing term for any kind of sustenance, which could include, say, fishing? With as many coasts as Lundland has, I would expect fishery to help out some lands with an otherwise poor soil.
I'm not a historical expert, so maybe I'm just overestimating township sizes in the middle ages, but I'll bear that in mind, and be more wary of population numbers. I looked at some of the other sheets, and noticed a town of about 10.000 inhabitants, so that's where my original estimations for the size of a capital came from.
By the way, is it possible to buy crops from other actors? Also, is food production solely based on agriculture, or is "crops" merely a generalizing term for any kind of sustenance, which could include, say, fishing? With as many coasts as Lundland has, I would expect fishery to help out some lands with an otherwise poor soil.
ulsterwarrior
Member
Seen
7 yrs ago
So it costs 5 Bullis for every one man, right?
King Solterra My Kingdom
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Seen
4 yrs ago
ulsterwarrior said
So it costs 5 Bullis for every one man, right?
Every season you pay 1 Bullis to a Soldier for payment for being a soldier.
The "5/1" being talked about is equipment, which is something totally different.
Plate armor costs 20/3. To "Unlock" or "Purchase" ONE set of Plate Armor, you MUST pay 20 Bullis. After that, you only need to pay Upkeep cost to keep it functional and strong. You pay 3 Bullis per season for Upkeep. There are 4 seasons in a year, so you need to be able to pay 3x4 per year. In the end, a single Plate armor costs 12 Bullis per year for Upkeep.
King Solterra My Kingdom
Member
Seen
4 yrs ago
However, I don't pay my Soldiers. Flooby has allowed me to pay my Soldiers in food and food for their families, and free homage. So, fuck yeah.
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