Outlaws of Varisia Pathfinder Campaign Interest Check

[Goldmyr]

Honestly, I see Leadership being very flavorful here, especially if the party wants to start a mob or something of their own. So, let's go with it's legal. How I will deal with it is a few levels away though. I think the follower you attract will be random, but I'm not sure yet.

[DR_TRAPEZOID]

I'm really sorry, but I don't think I'll be able to join this RP. RL stuff.

[The 42nd Gecko]

16; 12; 14; 18; 11; 11

Holy hell.. The dice were with me..

[Primal Conundrum]

Out of curiosity, why are you doing dice rolls instead of point buy? I'm a fan of point buy since it puts everyone on equal footing to start off.

I have an idea for a character that would fit fairly well into this- a lizardman voodoo witchdoctor (just a cleric mechanically, though I've got some voodoo-themed custom spells that I'd like to run by you). Only thing is that lizardfolk tend to not be available in a level one start- would it be possible for me to join the party after they gain a few levels so that I don't unbalance things?

Edit: actually, found this, would this be an acceptable racial breakdown for playing a Lizardfolk?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/3rd-party-races/paizo-fans-united/lizardfolk

[Omega]

Primal Conundrum said
Out of curiosity, why are you doing dice rolls instead of point buy? I'm a fan of point buy since it puts everyone on equal footing to start off.I have an idea for a character that would fit fairly well into this- a lizardman voodoo witchdoctor (just a cleric mechanically, though I've got some voodoo-themed custom spells that I'd like to run by you). Only thing is that lizardfolk tend to not be available in a level one start- would it be possible for me to join the party after they gain a few levels so that I don't unbalance things?Edit: actually, found this, would this be an acceptable racial breakdown for playing a Lizardfolk?

I think oracles have an actual voodoo thing.

The 42nd Gecko said
16; 12; 14; 18; 11; 11Holy hell.. The dice were with me..

I hate you

[Primal Conundrum]

Omega said
I think oracles have an actual voodoo thing.I hate you

I just like that Clerics can also actually get in to some melee fights and such, and I just generally prefer the rules set for clerics.

Also, a case can be made for point buy rather than die rolls!

Also, just went and read up on oracles- ew, sorcerer style casting. I really hate having a tiny spell pool, I pretty much never play sorcerers.

[Omega]

Primal Conundrum said
I just like that Clerics can also actually get in to some melee fights and such, and I just generally prefer the rules set for clerics.Also, a case can be made for point buy rather than die rolls!

Clerics and Oracles have the same weapon proficiencies, armors, and HD

[Primal Conundrum]

Omega said
Clerics and Oracles have the same weapon proficiencies, armors, and HD

Hm, was under the mistaken impression that clerics could use heavy armour. I guess that's either a 3.5 rule or else I just misremembered.

Either way, I really hate the whole "only know a few spells but cast them a lot" style that Oracles have, so I won't be touching that class with a ten foot pole.

[Omega]

Primal Conundrum said
Hm, was under the mistaken impression that clerics could use heavy armour. I guess that's either a 3.5 rule or else I just misremembered.Either way, I really hate the whole "only know a few spells but cast them a lot" style that Oracles have, so I won't be touching that class with a ten foot pole.

They are the sorcerers of the divine casters.

It was in 3.5 clerics could wear heavy armor. Basically fighters trading feats for spells and following specific rules.

[Primal Conundrum]

Yeah I don't play Sorcerers either- I prefer wizards. I just don't like having a permanently limited spell pool- I'd rather have to do a bit of planning and have a vast array of options, rather than only having a couple of tricks I can throw a lot.

[Omega]

I played them back before I knew what I was doing. Now that I know what I am doing I refuse to play wizards because they are so overpowered always being 1 standard action away from ruining your day.

Also I have 2 sheets mostly done, a Necromancer Cleric and a Master Summoner.

Undead Lord Cleric
Master Summoner
Eidolon

I need to know the pantheon and if we have any starting gear.

[The 42nd Gecko]

I plan on playing Kirin Style Monk/Magus (maybe Kensai?).

Preliminary Stuff

Solace
Human (Double stat boost
20 Str 14 Dex 12 Con 18 Int 11 Wis 11 Cha
Monk-Master of Many Styles
Temple Sword +5 1d8+7/19-20
Fist +5 1d6+5
HP 9 AC 14 (+2 Leather Armor, +2 Dex)
Fort +3 Ref +4 Will +2
Knowledge (Arcana, Dungeoneering, Local, Nature, Planes, Religion)
Bonus Feats: Kirin Style, Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist
Normal Feats: Desperate Battler

~~

You two don't know the true glory of a sorcerer until you've accidentally KO'd two party members with an over a hundred damage fireball.

[Omega]

The 42nd Gecko said
You two don't know the true glory of a sorcerer until you've accidentally KO'd two party members with an over a hundred damage fireball.

Anything a sorcerer can do a wizard can do better.

Also, you should be aware monks are considered about as powerful as the NPC warrior class.

[The 42nd Gecko]

A wizard is not very good at passively having his damage spells deal 60%+ more damage per CL. It's easy to build a sorcerer that deals Burning Hands of average 18 fire damage level 1, which, at level one equates to "Save, and still die."

~~

As for Monk's power, I don't really care. If we've got a primary spellcaster and a two handed weapon barbarian, all the party's combat needs are accounted for and everyone else is there for flavor and utility.

[Omega]

The 42nd Gecko said
A wizard is not very good at passively having his damage spells deal 60%+ more damage per CL. It's easy to build a sorcerer that deals Burning Hands of average 18 fire damage level 1, which, at level one equates to "Save, and still die."~~As for Monk's power, I don't really care. If we've got a primary spellcaster and a two handed weapon barbarian, all the party's combat needs are accounted for and everyone else is there for flavor and utility.

I do not usually count clerics as primary casters.

I am also curious how you do 18 damage on average with burning hands at level 1. I know you can get a decent bit with the crossblooded archetype and all but averaging 18 is more than I am aware of.

[The 42nd Gecko]

Crossblooded +2 damage per Die
1d4 damage per Cl.

Human, Spell Focus - Spell Specialization (which is not a dumb pick because you can move the Specialization to a new spell on even levels... Aka, the levels Sorcerers get new spell levels)
That's Caster Level 3 for an average of 3 x 4.5 (the average 1d4+2) That's 13.5 damage, which is enough to kill any non boss in a level one module on a failed save, and still enough to kill most low HP grunts that are likely to be in swarms at level one (kobolds, goblins, so forth, generally have 5 HP or less) on a succeeded save.

And, just for fun, if it's a one off or you expect you need a boost, drop a trait for another CL (aka, another 4.5 damage) on it. You now make the Wizard look like an inept moron when he casts he save or sucks to disable half the enemies, and you cast your save and still die to disable all the enemies.

If you're worried about your long term viability, don't, because you're a caster. By the time this little gimmick loses its charm at the mid levels, you're a caster with multiple spell levels. You can cast haste on your party at the beginning of 90% of your fights and that will literally be all your team needs*. Then have fun rolling a flaming sphere around or something.

*Assuming the party has a competently built Gunslinger, Two handed Barbarian, or Bow user to chunk out massive damage with that haste. The other 10% are when you need to cast glitterdust to reveal invisible enemies or fireball to kill a weapon immune swarm.

~~

In final comment, Wizards are awesome. Sorcerers are not as good, but they still have a few fun gimmicks, and I have yet to meet a single GM who has ever required more strategy out of his casters than "did you cast haste in a normal fight/glitterdust vs invisibles/fireballs vs swarms".

Which is why Summoners WRECK both wizards and sorcerers because of early haste, combined with creature summoning and better defense.

Generally, after a certain point of party power is reached (do we have a good martial character and a haster? Add in a healer if we're expected to marathon.), all the extra cool things, say, wizards can do that sorcerers can't, while cool and I love to see all the tricks they come up with, it generally isn't needed.

Thus, my choice of Monk. Will I ever be as strong as a two handed weapon barbarian? No. Will I be strong enough to hold my own and play a few fun tricks given that the party's main needs are already accounted for? Yes.

[Primal Conundrum]

With that kind of powergaming, you sound exactly like this guy I used to play D&D with.

I don't play tabletop RPGs with him anymore, since he's more interested in trying to abuse the system as opposed to making a fully fleshed out character.

Personally I think that when you decide what class you want to play before you decide what kind of personality you want your character to have, you're doing roleplaying wrong.

[The 42nd Gecko]

"Personally I think that when you decide what class you want to play before you decide what kind of personality you want your character to have, you're doing roleplaying wrong."

Good thing I didn't do that then.

I specifically chose a weaker class because it fit the flavor of my character more! Imagine that.

[Omega]

The 42nd Gecko said
Crossblooded +2 damage per Die1d4 damage per Cl.Human, Spell Focus - Spell Specialization (which is not a dumb pick because you can move the Specialization to a new spell on even levels... Aka, the levels Sorcerers get new spell levels)That's Caster Level 3 for an average of 3 x 4.5 (the average 1d4+2) That's 13.5 damage, which is enough to kill any non boss in a level one module on a failed save, and still enough to kill most low HP grunts that are likely to be in swarms at level one (kobolds, goblins, so forth, generally have 5 HP or less) on a succeeded save.And, just for fun, if it's a one off or you expect you need a boost, drop a trait for another CL (aka, another 4.5 damage) on it. You now make the Wizard look like an inept moron when he casts he save or sucks to disable half the enemies, and you cast your save and still die to disable all the enemies.If you're worried about your long term viability, don't, because you're a caster. By the time this little gimmick loses its charm at the mid levels, you're a caster with multiple spell levels. You can cast haste on your party at the beginning of 90% of your fights and that will literally be all your team needs. Then have fun rolling a flaming sphere around or something.

I see where I missed at, I did not think spell specialization, so you max out at an average 22.5 putting all feats and traits towards burning hand I believe. Even with spell specialization I am not a fan of it too much since ya that is surprising at level 1 but once you start getting a few levels Spell Specialization losses some scaling and wizards are still wizards, reflex saves are too common, and barbarians put out similar numbers at the same level and scale damage higher faster.

[Omega]

Primal Conundrum said
With that kind of powergaming, you sound exactly like this guy I used to play D&D with.I don't play tabletop RPGs with him anymore, since he's more interested in trying to abuse the system as opposed to making a fully fleshed out character.Personally I think that when you decide what class you want to play before you decide what kind of personality you want your character to have, you're doing roleplaying wrong.

I know the kind of person you are thinking of, I know one as well and Gekko does not strike me as the type.

The 42nd Gecko said
In final comment, Wizards are awesome. Sorcerers are not as good, but they still have a few fun gimmicks, and I have yet to meet a single GM who has ever required more strategy out of his casters than "did you cast haste in a normal fight/glitterdust vs invisibles/fireballs vs swarms".Which is why Summoners WRECK both wizards and sorcerers because of early haste, combined with creature summoning and better defense.Generally, after a certain point of party power is reached (do we have a good martial character and a haster? Add in a healer if we're expected to marathon.), all the extra cool things, say, wizards can do that sorcerers can't, while cool and I love to see all the tricks they come up with, it generally isn't needed.Thus, my choice of Monk. Will I ever be as strong as a two handed weapon barbarian? No. Will I be strong enough to hold my own and play a few fun tricks given that the party's main needs are already accounted for? Yes.

Most GMs I have run across require a lot more than that kind of tactic, they generally try to push their players more and make people think outside the box while also having the core bases covered. That is why I am giving us basic caster support and a meat shield with either class I picked as we lacked both.