[OOC] From Stardust, To Stardust

[Keyguyperson]

duck55223 said
What question?

Exactly

[Jeddaven]

Apollo26 said
Lol Jed, I hope I dont seem warlike, Aradites are nice people. They are just really careful, there arent alot of them

Nah. War is more only an issue when it's senseless and has no purpose aside from violence. Granted, the Bicirrigans themselves are much the same. They are extremely short-fused and cautious. They're a strange species, obviously. H

[WilsonTurner]

WilsonTurner said
I speak of the war aspect because there is plenty of everything else. The war aspect is really lacking; for the most part, it's Duck and Keyguy allies with pretty much everyone, and if they aren't allied with them, then they're usually an antagonist nation of some kind. When that antagonist nation attacks someone or the other, EVERYONE immediately rushes to the scene in a matter of seconds- literally. There are many posts where it's, and I AM talking about Keyguy as well, soldiers prepped and sent out to fight. How did the communications go so fast? How did it pass through the chain of command? Is there only one general coordinating everything? Strategy and tactics would have to be discussed, but it's literally someone asks for help, and somehow an entire battlefleet is already ready to go from everyone I find this quite unrealistic and quite, well, overpowered, even when there are magical space ponies about. To keep soldiers and captains on alert for any extended period of time, especially for humans, is a terrible burden; it can't be kept up for hours and hours, much less days, and weeks, and months.Right now, there are the beginnings of two sides:The Valkians with the ConvergenceThe Eternal Union with the Humans and the Sarz. nationsAnd again, it's geared extremely towards the Eternal Union, since they have hundreds of ships, and the Valkians have about a dozen or two. The Convergence obviously has more, but Cale does play it out more realistically, and it'd take time for any more Convergence reinforcements to come in.That's why the Nouvellians are important to me- they could be an ally, and while they may not be up-to-speed, so to speak, they could be brought up. Two people work better together than if they are both independent entities. The only problem is that the Humans have arrived, Duck is arriving, and a new guy is arriving. Duck is like my brother in Act of War- he spreads like a weed. My brother would cover half the map by the time I'd have my base set and situated to defend and repel all hostiles, and to have a QR, or Quick Reaciton, team ready to move. While my brother did not have as many defenses, he was already gaining speed. By the time i'd make two groups ready to battle, he'd be entrenched among each materials hub. The only way I got the upper hand was because he ONLY put defenses at the front, and around his main base. I sneaked stealthed helicopters into his territory, and watched his troop distribution, and attacked weak points or prepared defenses wherever I thought was necessary. And I still lost.Duck expands so fast and so quickly it's not even funny. Keyguy has what, one or two FTL ships? I have about a hundred or so, I think, and duck has about two hundred plus FTL warships. And, he's got the most territory, I'm pretty sure, and he's got the best technology, what with his magic, and he's got the most allies, and the most first-contacts. Please tell me how I'm just deciding to hate on Duck for JUST picking on him. Darkwolf has barely been around lately, and he has independent little clan-things that can be easily intimidated. He's split up, even though there's a lot of him.And if I get aggravated about your people, it's because while they may have copied-and-pasted, with a few edits, it's still a relatively unused idea. The Princesses and the Magic and the Equestrians had been part of the Big Three of the roleplay for AGES. Since it STARTED. And you STILL are. I was the Draconians, but they were outcasts, they were not welcome. They were more powerful than each nation, or more powerful than every two nations, but they were never part of the Big Three or Four. The Supremes, too, were outcasts, despite my attempts to change that. You all half-ignored me, and I couldn't really do anything. I just sat around and twiddled my thumbs. Great big giant spaceshipspacestation thing sitting out between territories? Whatever, no one cares if it happened to get bored and start sending all the stars in both territories into supernova giants. It's aggravating because you're using the same successful thing over and over, and eventually it's not success, it's just routine. First, establish contact with Humans. Short conflict; all solved. Give them free stuff, bring them up to speed. Make permanent alliance. Find everyone else, form either an alliance or bar them from everyone else. Shoot anyone who gets in your way. Use magic. Use the same ideas. Use the same names.Honestly, I AM about to quit, no doubt to your endless joy. There's no fun if the same thing is being repeated. It WAS cool back in the beginning, I could tell that much from all the posts. The Draconians in the beginning were a bit more acceptable- they were less antagonists and more like aggressive, gun-loving neighbors who bore long memories. The humans had their own little things, and the ponies had theirs, and there were Boskops and economics and all that. There was the humans selling private universes; there were Draconians fighting other peoples in their private universes. The ponies had their.. whatever, and the Draconians were constantly working on mechanical, energetic, kinetic, biological, and genetic projects. They were the first people to hit 1 million ships. A great achievement at the time- then a few roleplays later, a 1-million-fleet was like 10 ships against 1000. The Draconians were expanists, the Ponies were Scientists and Philosophers, the Humans were Tinkerers and Architects. The Draconians grew; the Ponies thought; the HUmans built, among other nations.Now it's just the same thing over and over again, with each reboot. Learn from the past, or you are destined to repeat it.That's my rant for the day.

WilsonTurner said
In addition to this, for tactical and limitation reasons, could I perhaps suggest that FTL can only work either from the edge of one system to the other, meaning the OUTERMOST areas, and from the outermost areas to any point farther into the system, as long as there is a relatively clear line of sight [meaning you can't go through something like an asteroid]?And FTL inside the gravity well of a planet, meaning anywhere near a moon, would destroy a ship?That way people can't just LEAVE if they start losing. The Valkians did, if you read earlier, warp into the outer edges and work their way inward.

WilsonTurner said
The past is how you bloody learn. A good story is not one where everything is fine, a good story is where there is a or multiple legitimate problems, which creates conflicts and pushes the plot forward. Having everything easy and going your way is NOT making a story, it's be Gary Sue or Stue or whatever that stuff is. You're making a perfect nation- militarily powerful, diplomatically sound, technologically ahead, set so that they are superior. That is not writing a story, it's writing a list of good things happening today-A. Found new people- after breaking into their minds, we made peace and live happily ever after!B. Found some more new people- talked to their brains too, then we made more peace but we took it a little slower this time. We now live happily ever after!C. Found some meanies near one of our colonies. We had our allies bring in a bunch of battlefleets in addition to our own, and totally wiped them out. #YOLOD. Found a planet that one of our allies was already making contact with- might as well go in ourselves and see if we can make them OUR allies first. We WILL live happily ever after- by the way, who are those guys in orbit? Eh, doesn't matter.E. Found more places- colonizing and industrializing as we speak, everything is better than projected by 300%.I am, of course, exaggerating on some points, but this IS how it's working. I have a people who have never heard of frigates, shields, fighters, or bombers, nor plasma or other energy-projectile weapons, with a fleet the size of a very small asteroid. The Convergence are pod-spammers.Please, tell me how great of a story maker you are, and how you are doing so great.Extremely easy- challenge yourself. Try something new.

[Jeddaven]

Before anyone freaks on my species "suddenly" appearing in the Oort cloud, they had been monitoring Earth for several years, and, as I made a big point of in my app, the Bicirrigans are obsessed with protecting intellectual freedom.

[null123]

I dont see a question, I just see lots of whining.

[Jeddaven]

duck55223 said
I dont see a question, I just see lots of whining.

To be fair, they make good points. Having a weakness-free nation in an RP is like hacking a game to get ahead in multiplayer. It ruins the fun for everyone else.
Not to mention the fact that, well, putting a new coat of paint on MLP isn't really making it a new thing, just like how the cosplayers that make "(insert random series here) ponified" are unoriginal and boring.

[null123]

He's bitching about things not being changed when they are changed. He also only ever seems to target me.

Like how he got mad at me for using the same concept for a different nation, yet didnt get mad at the person who exactly copied his.

[ASTA]

No to the ftl-nerfing nonsense Wilson is going on about.

[King Solterra]

Bitching and whining? Hah, I suppose the truth really hurts.

I don't feel like tolerating all thi anymore

[null123]

Nah it doesn't hurt.
But maybe Wilson needs to get over the past.

[WilsonTurner]

duck55223 said
Nah it doesn't hurt.But maybe Wilson needs to get over the past.

Dude
Shut up
I'm not talking about the past, if you actually READ it, you'd see me asking to make it realistic.

Your version of battles are
"ALRIGHT, EVERYONE CALL IN ALL OUR THREE-THOUSAND ALLIES AND RUSH THEM," while the solitary, single fleet that is being attacked is suddenly instantly surrounded by a thousand enemy ships.

Your version of roleplaying is, at least for this type, taking the same thing you had years ago, literally years ago, and just reposted it with a little change. And what is it me complaining about changes when there have been changes? What has been changed? You made your people now capable of using hands, congrats, now you can do even more crap in addition to magic. You say powerful magic isn't all that common, but why is it that when anyone does anything, you have like a legion of superusers ready?

Someone brings up valid points and other people agree, and instead of being a reasonable, fair person, duck, you just ignore, call it whining and complaining, and go on doing absolutely nothing different from when you first started this roleplay. If I recall correctly, when you first started this roleplay, the peace-loving peacekeepers of Equestria who were so closely guarded and protected by an all-powerful goddess had the largest military fleets, rivaled only by the Draconians. Let's go to the present: Whose fleets are large enough to take you on? Who has enough fleets to wipe out all yours?

Another thing I had 'complained' about was FTL. If a gun can shoot through walls in a game and it's killing EVERYBODY, then the makers of the game will obviously nerf it. FTL here is the same way. You guys have it where you can move yourself from any point to any point, except maybe in materials. I'm honestly surprised none of you have yet tried to use FTL to simply go from the surface of one planet to another. You use FTL to go from anywhere to anywhere, at any point in time with no apparent charge up. It's just like pressing a "GO HERE" button. *push* *push* *push* No problem, nothing. A fleet can go thousands of lightyears in a moment. How is this fun? Stuff needs to take time. If someone just has FTL, you could literally just gather up a big ol' assault, FTL straight up to the capital world of planet, nuke it all to hell before they could possibly respond, and then FTL out just as reinforcements had realized what was happening and came rushing in to help.

Another thing, again, is auto-hitting and the like. Where's the fun when all you do is "My fleet appeared and blew up half of the enemies before they could do anything."
Now, in another roleplay, the GM rolls everything. People have in a list:

1. Deployed 10,000 soldiers to German-Polish border

2. Launched bomber raid on Poland

3. Construction of new airfields to facilitate more airplanes

4. Construction of manufacturing plants for tanks and ammunitions

And the GM goes through and rolls or something for each one, letting everyone post once in the 'turn', and then going through and rolling

1. Deployed 10,000 soldiers to German-Polish border [Successful; soldiers deployed and entrenched; moral of people drop due to food shipments to the soldiers instead of to stores]

2. Launched bomber raid on Poland [Failed; AA too thick and resulted in losses of 60% of bombers; military moral drops]

3. Construction of new airfields to facilitate more airplanes [Failed; less capacity for airplanes]

4. Construction of manufacturing plants for tanks and ammunitions [Successful; more ammunition and tanks produced monthly; less money for research]

Of course, all we have is "We did this!"
"We did this again!"
"We made more stuff!"
"We're making better stuff than everyone else!"
And nothing says you can't, not really.

KeyGuy uses more or less the same idea, except he does something different every time with it, and he always has a sort of struggle. He has to get his peoples up on their feet again and start running. And, of course, he doesn't make everyone so bloody perfect. There are rebellions and internal wars and stuff. The closest I've ever seen to this is a Griffen setting off an explosive in an AIF city, and that's about it. The Supremes go about, asking different planets if they'll let them preserve their race, and, of course, all of them being absolutely perfect, all said the exact same thing: "No, we're all completely and totally loyal to our Princesses and to Faust even though we've never even heard their voices or anything."

But I'm not asking you to change anything, Duck, because I know you're too full of yourself to do so. No, I'm asking KeyGuy, because he shows more sense than everyone here. If he thinks your unoriginality and lack of creativity is great and more beneficial to the roleplay than me and Cale Tucker over here, then me and him will just Skedaddle. K?

[Keyguyperson]

I definitely agree with Cale Tucker and Wilson on Duck's creativity, it does seem to be somewhat lacking. I know that he's capable of writing good stories, though. In my conversations with him he's come up with some great ideas, mostly working with my humans. While his stuff might not look enriching to the roleplay, when his characters come into contact with characters like my humans, interesting this happen. The current invasion is going to build a lot of character in both species, think about it: The Iscandarians have had an almost perfect history, and the humans have had war after war. The Iscandarians are judging the humans from their perspective, and the humans see that as unfair. The humans will probably end up thinking themselves better than the Iscandarians, and the Iscnadarians will either end up agreeing with the whole "You can't learn without mistakes" thing or end up looking at the humans as if they think they are self-entitled children.

[darkwolf687]

And here we go again

I shall write and post my full thoughts on this after my class is finished.

[Apollo26]

I hope duck didnt forget about his other encounters. Id hate to be left out on new condia

[darkwolf687]

Okay. No to FTL nerf, imo. I don't believe we really need to make any changes, unless people do literally start appearing out of no where on the surface of worlds. Precision FTL jumps (such as jumping in a formation or jumping 'close' to an enemy ships) could be acceptable depending on technology, but mostly I feel that jumps to arrive in systems are fine, and jumps to retreat are fine

Further, the political divisions you mention results in a sort of cold war. I think this is acceptable as its a logical outcome global or in this case galactic society, splitting into alliances. And alliances are rarely balanced, that's why they constantly try to outdo each other, IE the West and East. If you see a divide forming and realise your side is weak, its best to try and get more people to shore it up
The seemingly perpetual high alert of fleets is odd, though some nations could legitimately have that.

Lets not start the Equestrian debate again, really, by now its obvious that it's just a waste of everyone's breath because nothing happens
Speaking on magic, as long as we're not going back towards the blowing up suns, fleets and destroying entire species types of magic, racial traits are fine. However, if its declared that strong ability in it is "rare" then it should actually be rare to have powerful magic users.
I wouldn't say duck lacks creativity as much as he simply doesn't like leaving his comfort zone. If we're honest, void of the stars and star empires were pretty much the same RP. The EU shares the same core of the Equestrian Empire, but base values are not always indicative of society being the same as another with similar values, though the current EU is somewhat more plausible than its predecessors.

[King Solterra]

Wilson, just quit. Why should you be forced to deal with the individual.

[Apollo26]

I will not be happy if this dies.....

[Apollo26]

I replied LaX

[null123]

darkwolf687 said
Okay. No to FTL nerf, imo. I don't believe we really need to make any changes, unless people do literally start appearing out of no where on the surface of worlds. Precision FTL jumps (such as jumping in a formation or jumping 'close' to an enemy ships) could be acceptable depending on technology, but mostly I feel that jumps to arrive in systems are fine, and jumps to retreat are fine Further, the political divisions you mention results in a sort of cold war. I think this is acceptable as its a logical outcome global or in this case galactic society, splitting into alliances. And alliances are rarely balanced, that's why they constantly try to outdo each other, IE the West and East. If you see a divide forming and realise your side is weak, its best to try and get more people to shore it upThe seemingly perpetual high alert of fleets is odd, though some nations could legitimately have that.Lets not start the Equestrian debate again, really, by now its obvious that it's just a waste of everyone's breath because nothing happensSpeaking on magic, as long as we're not going back towards the blowing up suns, fleets and destroying entire species types of magic, racial traits are fine. However, if its declared that strong ability in it is "rare" then it should actually be rare to have powerful magic users.I would say duck lacks creativity as much as he simply doesn't like leaving his comfort zone. If we're honest, void of the stars and star empires were pretty much the same RP. The EU shares the same core of the Equestrian Empire, but base values are not always indicative of society being the same as another with similar values, though the current EU is somewhat more plausible than its predecessors.

I do not have a problem with setting up a cold-war blocs type scenario, my problem is that Wilson just wants to do it to create conflict. There is no reason what so ever for the Eternal Union and what ever Wilson faction was called to be in conflict. Both want peace, so why should they come into conflict?

If he can come up with a legit reason via OOC or through later events in IC then I would be totally fine with him setting up blocs, but their's no reason for it. The story is not the conflict itself, its the reasons for that conflict.

And yeah, pones were stupid. However I still like the idea of a Utopian like race fueled by magic, so i used it for this.

[Keyguyperson]

darkwolf687 said
racial traits are fine. However, if its declared that strong ability in it is "rare" then it should actually be rare to have powerful magic users.I wouldn't say duck lacks creativity as much as he simply doesn't like leaving his comfort zone.

Definitely agree here. I just suggested that if the entirety of the human fleet got together and attacked the 100 or so fleet the EU has in Sol, they might win, especially with my dreadnoughts that are basically sniper rifles with broadside weapons. Here's what duck said on the dreadnought matter:

Doge Duck: Wellllllllllllllllllllll
Keyguy: I've got six or seven by now
Doge Duck: Iscandarian Dreadnoughts are much bigger then your average
Doge Duck: Thats why they take so long to build
Keyguy: Duck
Keyguy: I already assumed that
Doge Duck: A regular battlecruiser is about the size of wnat most consider a Dreadnought]

That's Duck saying that a battlecruiser of his is exactly as large as the biggest vessels a civilization that has colonized an entire system thoroughly has ever constructed.
Here's another jewel:

Keyguy: One question
Keyguy: How many ships are there laying back with the dreadnought?
Doge Duck: 6
Doge Duck: And there all massive and will rape your ass if you get close
Keyguy: That's why you don't get close.
Doge Duck: What are you going to do?
Keyguy: Human dreadnoughts are basically gigantic sniper rifles that can fire giant blobs of plasma
Keyguy: except they have broadside cannon
Doge Duck: Iscandarians have really strong shields

Really strong shields. REALLY. STRONG. SHIELDS. I say my six or so dreadnoughts have plasma accelerator weaponry that's definitely capable of doing significant damage to some ships, and the response? "Uhh... they're like, better."
This is what I heard after I suggested that the humans might be capable of winning:

Doge Duck: I HAVE PLANNED THIS FOR A FUCKING LONG ASS TIME
Doge Duck: AND YOUR GOING TO FUCKING RUIN IT
Keyguy: Okay then, what happens after you take over Earth?
Doge Duck: Reform
Doge Duck: Extermination of the rebels
Doge Duck: Strict right standards

Not that I can read minds, but that really, really sounds like an excuse. You can decide for yourselves, but it doesn't take that long to plan three broad things. Given that every Iscandarian is exactly the same in their views and those are pretty well-defined, it doesn't take too long to figure out what those reforms and standards would be.

This next one can speak for itself:

Keyguy: You do realize that Fergus is gonna be mad, right?
Doge Duck: Yes
Keyguy: And that he's killed hundreds already?
Doge Duck: But Faust will come talk to him
Doge Duck: And calm him

*Sigh*

This is the start of the argument (The most recent one, that is):

Doge Duck: so
Keyguy: Hey
Doge Duck: are you telling them to pisss off
Keyguy: Does the Dreadnought have hangars?
Doge Duck: No
Doge Duck: And A 101 ship fleet is going to overpower ANYTHING the Terrnans have

No, definitely not! It'll bet there aren't windows either, or any slightly misplaced subatomic particles. You also have to love how the first thing that gets said to me after I get an answer is "Oh yeah, I WIN".

A slice from the direct predecessor to the argument that just happened, this was recent as well:

Doge Duck: Favor please
Doge Duck: Tell the guys in orbit
Doge Duck: The new contact
Doge Duck: Jeddevans race
Doge Duck: To back the fuck off
Doge Duck: Tel them that you wanna fight this own your own
Keyguy: Why would the humans do that?
Keyguy: Their current line of thinking is "Fuck the Iscandarians"
Doge Duck: Because they think the can perserve
Doge Duck: And they dont know the aliens so yeah
Doge Duck: And I dont want them interveneing anyways

To me, that sounds like "So yeah, these people who are offering to save the humans? Well, since they can totally destroy my fleet, have the humans refuse their help. I don't wanna lose."

Any opinions? Am I right? Am I wrong? Should Duck be punished? Should I be punished? Should we both be punished? Should I dance in a clown suit on top of a checkerboard cake with chocolate frosting? You tell me.

(EDIT: Forgot to say this, I think, most likely. Anyways, I was totally a dick in that convo too. I yelled a lot, I obviously though I was justified. I kind of had a breakdown, and imitated duck in a particularly insulting way. I do have a pretty short temper, but either way, that's what happened. Duck asked me to tell you something, and being the smartass that I am, I'll do it in the one way he definitely didn't want me to do it:

Doge Duck: Oh and the whole telling you not to ask for help
Doge Duck: Was a joke
Keyguy: ...
Keyguy: Duck
Doge Duck is now Online.
Doge Duck: It was
Doge Duck: And so was the Faust thing

See? it was all just a joke.)