[OOC] Massive Multiversal Crossover

[IncredibleBee]

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

Your fundamental, and fundamentally flawed, assumption is that because magic = astral (and thus 99% likely to be described as demonic because this is Berserk and the world hates you; when most of what's there seems to be 'Apostles' it fits) in the original setting, all magic that shall ever show up in the RP works on the exact same rules. Not to mention that 'can cut purely magical/astral things' is not anti-magic. Anti-magic is cancelling it. That means, following simple logic, that just because you could cut something, doesn't mean you have cut something.

@Raineh Daze

So what you're saying is I have to cut through magic by cutting it? Which is what I was doing anyways.

[Raineh Daze]

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

So what you're saying is I have to cut through magic by cutting it? Which is what I was doing anyways.

@IncredibleBee

What I'm saying is that you're not going to automatically succeed at cutting through a magical item. If the 'magical' part is something like 'nigh invincible', then it doesn't matter if you can cut something that isn't even physical.

[IncredibleBee]

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

What I'm saying is that you're not going to automatically succeed at cutting through a magical item. If the 'magical' part is something like 'nigh invincible', then it doesn't matter if you can cut something that isn't even physical.

@Raineh Daze

Actually it does matter because the Dragonslayer cuts physical and magical materials simultaneously, by virtue of being a physical weapon imbued with astral properties.

[Lost Cause]

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

Actually it does matter because the Dragonslayer cuts physical and magical materials simultaneously, by virtue of being a physical weapon imbued with astral properties.

@IncredibleBee

You're still assuming that all magical things work the same way across all universes.

[Raineh Daze]

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

Actually it does matter because the Dragonslayer cuts physical and magical materials simultaneously, by virtue of being a physical weapon imbued with astral properties.

@IncredibleBee

I don't follow the logic. Where did I say, anywhere, about magical materials? If we take a hunk of iron, and do magic to make the iron impervious to damage, cutting on a different plane of existence won't help.

[Earnest Evans]

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

You're still assuming that all magical things work the same way across all universes.

@Lost Cause

I thought that was a fundamental part of Multiverse games. If it wasn't, characters who use a lot of magic would be pretty much Shit Outta Luck.

[IncredibleBee]

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

I don't follow the logic. Where did I say, anywhere, about magical materials? If we take a hunk of iron, and do magic to make the iron impervious to damage, cutting on a different plane of existence won't help.

@Raineh Daze

Actually The Dragonslayer could cut that too. You see, the antimagic nature of the sword would slice through the enchantment when it hits while simultaneously cutting the iron itself. It's a two-fold attack.

[IncredibleBee]

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

You're still assuming that all magical things work the same way across all universes.

@Lost Cause

If it didn't, wouldn't literally every magical character be useless outside their home dimension?

[Raineh Daze]

<Snipped quote by Lost Cause>

If it didn't, wouldn't literally every magical character be useless outside their home dimension?

@IncredibleBee

It's the other way around: it stops effects that exploit specific weaknesses in a setting from applying universally, without unduly affecting the people using the magic. Being able to cut through anything and everything remotely magical because of a quirk in the definition of an enchanted item in Berserk is horrendously powerful--especially when it comes to destroying items that are literally irreplaceable.

Plus we still have no idea what the deal with the hammer actually is, other than 'is hammer, magic is involved'.

[VitaVitaAR]

It's less that magic works the same everywhere and more that it has the same effects everywhere. If it worked the same everywhere there would be absolutely no way to reconcile all the various systems for using it.

IncredibleBee, Just as, say... Magic from let's say Lord of the Rings has nothing to do with the Warp from Warhammer 40k, magic from any other universe has nothing to do with the Astral Realm from Berserk.

If your explanation made more sense(blanket antimagic not concentrated on a plane of existence from a specific setting, for example), then I would understand. Even still that would run more on being able to cut her flames then through her weapon but it would be an edge if you seriously want to fight her.

My issues with what you've been doing have been that you've repeatedly avoided any attempts to get you into the RP and attempted to instant-kill a non-faceless mook NPC.

At this point I'm getting kind of frustrated because I did discuss sending NPC's with you to get you involved in things and you didn't at all mention that I had to completely avoid certain types of characters.

[IncredibleBee]

It's less that magic works the same everywhere and more that it has the same effects everywhere. If it worked the same everywhere there would be absolutely no way to reconcile all the various systems for using it.

IncredibleBee, Just as, say... Magic from let's say Lord of the Rings has nothing to do with the Warp from Warhammer 40k, magic from any other universe has nothing to do with the Astral Realm from Berserk.

If your explanation made more sense(blanket antimagic not concentrated on a plane of existence from a specific setting, for example), then I would understand. Even still that would run more on being able to cut her flames then through her weapon but it would be an edge if you seriously want to fight her.

My issues with what you've been doing have been that you've repeatedly avoided any attempts to get you into the RP and attempted to instant-kill a non-faceless mook NPC.

At this point I'm getting kind of frustrated because I did discuss sending NPC's with you to get you involved in things and you didn't at all mention that I had to completely avoid certain types of characters.

@VitaVitaAR

I thought it was obvious that you'd need to be choosy when sending someone to greet Guts more than basically anyone else, more so when he pulled out the death threats. At the very least, I'd thought you'd read up. I don't recall you asking if it was a good idea to send a specific type of character, either.

Also, I instagibbed her like a faceless mook NPC because she kind of is one. No character sheet, and no real details. She doesn't even have a name.

[Raineh Daze]

I thought it was obvious that you'd need to be choosy when sending someone to greet Guts more than basically anyone else, more so when he pulled out the death threats. At the very least, I'd thought you'd read up. I don't recall you asking if it was a good idea to send a specific type of character, either.

@IncredibleBee

Er... Berserk's a bit long to read up just to try and work out what won't set Guts off. Not to mention not everyone's cup of tea. XD

Also, I instagibbed her like a faceless mook NPC because she kind of is one. No character sheet, and no real details. She doesn't even have a name.

@IncredibleBee

That's because there was no chance for them to give a name. If they're on their own, not attacking you, and trying to talk, you're above 'faceless mook'--or if they bring along mooks of their own. When one post is specifically 'no, they're not dead', it's pretty clear from context they're not a mook.

[IncredibleBee]

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

It's the other way around: it stops effects that exploit specific weaknesses in a setting from applying universally, without unduly affecting the people using the magic. Being able to cut through anything and everything remotely magical because of a quirk in the definition of an enchanted item in Berserk is horrendously powerful--especially when it comes to destroying items that are literally irreplaceable.

Plus we still have no idea what the deal with the hammer actually is, other than 'is hammer, magic is involved'.

@Raineh Daze

Superman is listed in his Character sheet as being so physically strong he's "able to destroy small planets". You're telling me that's allowed, but an antimagic weapon isn't?

[VitaVitaAR]

That is because most RP's I have ever been in do not write full blown character sheets for every single NPC even if they're relatively important. Usually the context gives what you need as far as importance goes. On both sides notable NPC's have gotten pictures and more detailed descriptions, for example.

I didn't ask, and nothing in your bio indicated this, as well as nothing you previously wrote in the RP for your character. Maybe I should have, but you could have mentioned you wanted a different character when I first had her show up, or if you had any concerns when I was talking with you over PM's. I'm also honestly concerned about him being unable to interact with any notably supernatural characters if this is how you will play him.

... Also Superman is gone and I'm quite frankly not pleased with having accepted him in the first place, but if he did include planet-busting then I wouldn't have accepted him at any point and I wish I hadn't.

[Raineh Daze]

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

Superman is listed in his Character sheet as being so physically strong he's "able to destroy small planets". You're telling me that's allowed, but an antimagic weapon isn't?

@IncredibleBee

I have no input on character acceptance, or any idea when he was accepted.

[IncredibleBee]

<Snipped quote by Raineh Daze>

Superman is listed in his Character sheet as being so physically strong he's "able to destroy small planets". You're telling me that's allowed, but an antimagic weapon isn't?

@IncredibleBee

While I'm at it, Dlanor has a weapon that can't be blocked and can instantly destroy anything she doesn't believe in; Cinderfall can destroy anything she wants, Kiba is capable of dodging bullets and punching with the force of a tank shell and can shoot ki blasts, Takahara has an arbitrary number of reinforcements, Misaka has a gun that can't miss and an automatic material rifle, and Kakine can make dark matter at will, which ignores the laws of physics.

In the face of powers like these, I feel like an antimagic melee weapon isn't a ridiculous concept.

[Earnest Evans]

I think what we're missing is how @IncredibleBee had "The Dragonslayer destroys magic" listed on his character sheet all this time, and he's not even the only character with a weapon that ignores defenses, either. If we had any issues with this, it would have been best to call them out beforehand.

@IncredibleBee is handling this very poorly, but the fact that some of us are surprised that the batshit meatman with a sword that can destroy magical defenses went batshit and destroyed someone's magical defense is quite frankly ludicrous.

[IncredibleBee]

That is because most RP's I have ever been in do not write full blown character sheets for every single NPC even if they're relatively important. Usually the context gives what you need as far as importance goes. On both sides notable NPC's have gotten pictures and more detailed descriptions, for example.

I didn't ask, and nothing in your bio indicated this, as well as nothing you previously wrote in the RP for your character. Maybe I should have, but you could have mentioned you wanted a different character when I first had her show up, or if you had any concerns when I was talking with you over PM's. I'm also honestly concerned about him being unable to interact with any notably supernatural characters if this is how you will play him.

... Also Superman is gone and I'm quite frankly not pleased with having accepted him in the first place, but if he did include planet-busting then I wouldn't have accepted him at any point and I wish I hadn't.

@VitaVitaAR

It's listed in the bio that he was attacked by demons. Magic's obviously a turnoff.

Also it's not that Guts will instantly kill wizards and magical things. His best friends include a witch and a fairy. The problem is a wizard showing up, shooting fire all at him, and saying "Hey we have been tracking you." That would be a red alert to even a normal person; Guts has spent several years fighting monsters nonstop.

I think the best way to go about this is to maybe restart the encounter, albeit with a different NPC.

[Raineh Daze]

In the face of powers like these, I feel like an antimagic melee weapon isn't a ridiculous concept.

@IncredibleBee

And it didn't seem antimagic at all until it became relevant, which is more problematic than knowing what people can do beforehand. That the mechanism exploits something that only applies in Berserk and would allow it to destroy things that can't be destroyed is an issue. (Excalibur comes to mind as a specific example)

I think what we're missing is how @IncredibleBee had "The Dragonslayer destroys magic" listed on his character sheet all this time, and he's not even the only character with a weapon that ignores defenses, either. If we had any issues with this, it would have been best to call them out beforehand

@Earnest Evans

Exact quote: "By slaying countless monsters, the sword has taken on magical properties, and can now harm magical beings that can't be hurt by mundane weapons". It isn't explicitly negating any magical anything.

[VitaVitaAR]

@IncredibleBee: I have actually explicitly nerfed Dlanor so that her weapon does not work in that way. I did not see Cinder Fall being able to destroy anything and if that is the case then I must have misread. Kiba's abilities were not listed as he has described recently him and that is one of the problems I have with his current playing, Misaka's gun is still capable of being defended against, and Kakine still has limitations that are the only reason I accepted him.

My issues with how you are playing the Dragonslayer are that you seem to believe it instantly destroys any magic at all, and that the explanation you have used to justify this does not make sense. Not that it can harm or deflect magic.

If it really comes down to it, fine, I'll edit what she said or something.

@Earnest Evans: If that's the case I must have missed it, or misunderstood the extent it was meant to fill, and I apologize. However having spoken with people who read Berserk it does not appear that it goes to this level in canon.