The Twelve Labours: General Discussion

[Loksfjoer]

I must say, this labour was a struggle. The story I submitted was actually my third one and I wasn't completely sure I met the requirements of the challenge. The first story I wrote didn't really meet the requirements. The second one I think would have been able to meet the requirements but it became a boring one, so I wrote up Curiosity killed the cat instead. I took adventurous nature/curiosity as the good thing and then wrote out the burden he carried with that. I gave my character a crucial turning point where he could either dispense of the burden or not. He didn't and he paid the price for that.

@PlatinumSkinkMy story was on the border of being accepted by Terminal and I'm grateful he decided it met the criteria after all. In the end Oscar made the active decision to give in to his curiosity and go to the place called 'witches forest', a place that already exists and a place of which he knew people didn't return from. Forests don't get names like that for no reason and he knows these travels can be dangerous. I probably should have hinted towards how mystical beings could be real to add a level of real danger. If I would have added that, would it then meet the criteria in your eyes?
I must say, while making the plot fit with the labour was a struggle, it was fun to write this one and I'm glad you feel the writing was good.

[mdk]

review time for MDK! In the interest of getting to everyone these are going to look really cursory at a glance -- I'm trying to get straight to the meat and leave everything else off, but assume I have more to say, and if you want to talk more in depth, I can do that (here and/or in PM, both work for me)

reviews

ultimate power

@RomanAriaFlashbacks are bad and you should feel bad! Okay, got that out of the way. It's not so much the flashing back, but just in general, the story skips around an awful lot. For a short story (especially for a SHORT short story), a more solid structure works better. The conflict is believable -- Chinese emperors especially had to deal with this bullcrap. But it feels a little contrived possibly because of the way it comes up -- imagine this same story playing out over a single scene, with no flashbacks or post-mortem notes. A friend comes in and says "What up homegirl" and Olivia has to decide whether she's politically able to save him/her. Instead of reading "This is a thing that happens in this empire," I'd rather watch it actually happen, you know? Might've hit on the theme a little more that way, hard to say.

Too Much Power

@Psyga315Very interesting developments in the story. Certain things are a little underwhelming though -- when Zack is lamenting a dozen people dead in Turkey, I don't feel any connection to that incident -- like I would if, say, it was some warlord he's already tangled with? Or maybe the people killed were people he's already tried to save, or failed somehow? His attachments to the world aren't all that engaging to me as a reader (I might be alone in that -- that's how I feel though). But his interactions with his brother are great, and their relationship is growing very very interesting after this installment. That part is the focus and it's strong. I'd like to see what happens if you were to focus on one specific, meaningful civilian/crisis/issue and like really get me invested in that, for a chapter or two.

Curiosity Killed the Cat

@Wisedragongirl Oscar is (understandably) a little one-dimensional, because this is a story about that specific aspect of who he is, and what did I really expect was gonna happen? But I'd like to see another side of him. There's maybe a little too much exposition at the beginning, which clears up nicely when the sprites/nymphs/creatures show up -- that part is gold, and part of the reason is, you know, their role hasn't been spelled out -- they're just unfolding before my eyes. I like that, especially in an exploration story. Is there a way to do more of that more often? Maybe instead of saying "No one ever comes out," you could write about Oscar happening across a few bodies and figuring out who they were, what happened, etc.

Forbidden Knowledge Grace

@FlaggOK so I said it before -- I love this writing. It's..... possibly a complete and total miss on the theme, but I don't care, I love it. There's layers and layers of story, and sometimes I'm not getting enough to really follow what's happening (and that's fine by me) -- particularly Part Two, I think, was a glimpse of something that I don't understand yet. And again, I like that in a story (though I assume it gets a little more relevance at some point). I dig pretty much everything here, but especially the kids, god, that was terrifying.

Otherworld

@Dark WindFantastic. I love the decaying sentences. I love the decaying. I love. I mean.... the coolest thing here was that it felt like we were sharing the delusion. Would've been much easier to write about snorting coke and shooting up, but written this way, I'm very much in Mark/Merkel's shoes for the whole journey. I think the ending might've been a little abrupt -- Mark looking at Merkel's shadow, I mean, that's gold, and it feels like a real turning point -- but it's just a line or two before the story's over. Which is hopeful I suppose.... it ended before I wanted it to end, and that's pretty great really. Nice work.

I think therefore I am

Yiiiiiiiiiiiikes that's creepy. Theme homerun, for sure. Other than spelling (heh) I'm not sure what sort of improvements I could even suggest.... Maybe a scream at the end, where they both just start shrieking in unison, that would drive it home. Nah -- it's perfect the way it is. EXCELLENT.

Swordmaster

@PlatinumSkink Right? It's good. We're dealing obviously with a very action-heavy story, and the action is solid. Since it is a battle, I'm not going to stress out much about 'OH THERE WASN'T ENOUGH BACKGROUND FOR XYZ," I mean, this is a fight not a bible story. The scene with the kid isn't super -- the points are getting across, this is a badass swordmaster with a specific attitude, he's issuing a challenge, he's scary and he killed his dad.... it's not super though, and it almost could be. If we focused a little more on character development, in like an active way, during that scene, it would carry the action a little better later on.

I think you are abusing the ellipsis a little bit, and that's something I do myself, so I'm really not trying to offend. There's a lot of ellipses in here. I mean a whole lot. I'm not saying EVERY SINGLE ONE needs to be replaced with sentences, but most of them probably should be. As an exercise, try writing out a few connective sentences/fragments/whatever, especially on the trailing ellipses, and see what comes out. It might be better (it might not, too, but still). Whenever there's that much of something in a story -- be it ellipsis, comma, or 'he said,' it's time to swear off that element for a while just for the sake of growth. Even if it worked perfectly every time, you wouldn't gain much by doing it again.

response to Thirteen Flat reviews

Glad people like it! I was trying my hardest to write something completely different and I just couldn't make it go, so I tried some drag racing.

@Terminal -- Yeah I could've played up the personal benefits a bit more. It was tricky, since I was mostly in John's head for the whole story but it was really a story about Michael. And Michael's got good things going on -- courage, overcoming adversity, the best cars money can buy. These things make him feel alive and it's supposed to come across from, like, the crowd reacting, or 'that spark in his eye' or whatever. He's addicted to the rush though, and that nearly kills him again. Or does get him killed. Schroedinger's Michael, I guess. BUT YEAH -- from the outside perspective it's hard to tell what exactly he's getting out of these races. I could've given him trophies or prize money or a hot wife or something to make that clearer. I think I was counting on the accolades at the end, where everyone decides "Sure, that was 13.0, why not?" to sort of convey the kind of recognition Michael's after. And he got it, sort of, for a price.

@PlatinumSkink -- well "FLAWLESS" is probably overstating it, but thanks! I think lately though "We already know how this is going to end" has been a theme in some of my writing, and I need to build in some more tension/uncertainty. Watching people go through the motions can be fun and all but no one's exactly on the edge of their seat, wondering what's going to happen. I'm gonna work on that.

[Loksfjoer]

So a little more unfolding and little less exposition. That's something I'll keep in mind for future stories. Thanks for the feedback!

[Gwynbleidd]

And here I am getting to these Twelve Labour reviews at last. Seeing as entries have already been selected for passing the test, I won't be judging based on adhering to the goal of the labour. I may make a passing comment on whether you did or did not, but that's been covered. Mainly I'll just look at structure, content, etc.

Reviews are up!

Ultimate Power, Ultimately Powerless

You got some pretty writing there! Pleasant to my eyes, really. You've got the skill, but now you need to nail down some of the finer points of the story. This was short, but hey that's fine. Not everyone has to go super lengthy. But you could have benefitted with some more length, seeing as how this piece did not pass the challenge. Might have helped establish the too much power you seemed to be going for. The flashbacks weren't needed. While the writing was beautiful, the expository elements didn't help you out here. I'd like to have seen Olivia in action. See her struggle with being powerful but ultimately powerless. I'm slightly confused on the figurehead point, at some points you make it seem like she does have some considerable power and choices to make. What if Olivia had power, and you went the route of her using it too much? Anyway, that's enough of the topic of the labour itself. But these questions could help focus your story. I want to SEE Olivia's world and her story. I want to FEEL her pain, not be told about it. Give me some real depth to grab onto. You've got elements for a horribly sad tragedy that'd probably make me cry. As it is, it was enjoyable but needs more.

Too Much Power

You don't have to be so blunt about the guidelines of the labour. I get it, you wanted to achieve the task I suppose. But this shouldn't be about accomplishing just that. It should be about writing excellent prose. Well, more like IMPROVING so you can reach the level of writing excellent prose (WHILE HAVING FUN!) Don't feel limited by the mission set forth by the labour. You're allowed to indirectly hit the point of the labour. Get creative with your message. You can imply what is too much. We can see it through what your characters do and say. And they don't have to be all like "I HAVE TOO MUCH POWER!" Someone could SHOW that they are high on their powers. Hovering in the air like a god, and then using so much that they end up in the hospital. We would understand they had too much power without having to say it directly. As is, the writing style can be a bit bland and dry. I still don't feel I know these characters too well. Build your world more is what I suggest. Dig deep into the personalities of the brothers and their relationships with others in the outside world. Things may start to come more to life.

Curiosity Killed The Cat

You've got a habit of some of your paragraphs being scrunched up together. Might wanna break those tight confines open and give space between. Makes it easier on the eyes to read. It's been covered that the beginning of the story is quite a bit of exposition. Why don't you show us Oscar and his daily activities? I want to see him make maps. See what he's so interested in. Show us his character through his relationship with his wife, etc. Once you got to the forest, you displayed some real talent. I was disappointed we stopped there because I wanted to explore more. Everything came to life, and that's where the story really seemed to begin.

Thirteen Flat

You definitely redeemed yourself from the last time. And I had no doubt you would. I mean, when the actual story was told in the first labour your skill was evident. Beautiful prose and vivid descriptions. Made me really excited to see what you had in store for this labour and you nailed it! I got a feel of your characters. Are you from the South or wherever those accents stem from? Asking out of curiosity due to the whole western vibes. Or perhaps you're just a fan of that kind of feel/genre. REGARDLESS, you do a wonderful job with it. Like me a western-y feel for sure. You immersed me into the world, and it seems like some research was done within the topic of the story. It felt interesting and grounded in reality. Nailed the contest theme. Michael was strong as a character, and you put on display the whole show don't tell. We could get a lot of who the characters were by their actions. Just a well put together piece of writing. I wanted to see more!

Forbidden Knowledge Grace

Know you didn't hit on the contest theme, but whoa that was awesome. Typically horror-esque things don't appeal to me, but they certainly do when the story is compelling. And that certainly was the case here. If this is going to be a novel one day… TELL ME! Lol. Right amounts of showing, right amounts of exposition. Enough to keep me curious the entire way through. The children! Wow, that was horrifying. The Poisoned Man was creepy, as what whatever the hell chased Arctos and the Wizard. You've got an intriguing talent. Don't often see too much fantasy mixed in with horror. It feels like an expansive world and you've established it rather nicely. Bits and pieces here and there. The Plague, the kids, the beast, the poisoned man. I want answers to these questions, and you wisely left them to sizzle with the ending. It was like reading several well-paced chapters of an intense moment in a great book. Excellent work.

I think, therefore I am

Well that was certainly creepy. Pacing could use work as it felt rather jumpy for me. Jolted me as a reader. Everything else was entertaining and inventive. But wow were there some good scenes in here. The shower scene was creepy and invasive. Finishing sentences and then coming down to that conclusion. Nothing much I had to criticize other than pace. Well done.

Swordmaster

Looks like I won't make any comments on the ellipses as people already have. Honestly, I won't comment on them anymore, I promise! You like them, so you do you. Can't blame you, ellipses can be quite addictive. Anyway, on to the story. Your action writing can get a tad mechanical. I do like that you have more character thoughts in the midst of the battle (story in general, really). And it's almost stream of consciousness from the view of the Swordmaster. He's a murderer with a fragile mind it seems. The writing conveys that in the way it feels scattered. Perhaps not always my cup of tea, but when it's done right it can be very powerful. Sion intrigued me with his master mind. I'm pretty fond of those devious types of characters who can pull the rug from underneath just about anyone. There's a lot of telling in his scene with the child. About what he's doing, why he's doing it. Leave something to the imagination would be my advice. That scene with the child should be chilling, spine-tinglingly horrifying and unsettling. But I don't get to see or feel that. I'm told a lot of things that could be conveyed through action, visuals, dialogue that's not on the nose. Lots of creativity and potential for deep, fascinating characters.

[Gwynbleidd]

Reviews be finished. Now my full focus is on RPGC3!

[Loksfjoer]

You have no idea how glad I am to read the words 'real talent' in your review. Thank you. But yes, too much exposition. I'll try to avoid that in future stories. I would have loved to show more of Oscar to be honest. I just didn't have the time to make the story much longer then it was and I had to give all the necessary information for the challenge this way. Thinking back I probably could have done it differently, for example the aching joints I mentioned could have been made apparent by making him move and describe an expression of pain or something like that. So yes, it's definitely something I'll keep in mind for other stories. Thanks for the review.

[Terminal]

Hello everyone. Just chiming in to make a few announcements.

Firstly, as you may have noticed, the sidebar is working.

Secondly, all Trophies for the First and Second Labours have been retroactively awarded to all the contest winners. As a brief primer on the trophy system (which is still undergoing development):

-Everyone now has a list of trophies in the user profiles. The list tells you when the trophy was awarded, what trophy group the trophy was a part of, and how many of each trophy was given out.

-People who wish to remain anonymous can hide trophies in their profiles. If anybody is looking at the trophy groups, your username will be hidden.

-Some trophies come with special unique effects. The main trophies for both Labours, when activated, grant the user the unique, custom forum title associated with each contest - So Nemean Assassin and Lernaean Exile respectively. You can activate and deactivate these trophies in your user profile.

-Each trophy is part of a trophy set associated with an event or category. Each trophy set has an active forum list describing the set as a whole, and each individual trophy in the list also has a description either telling you how it was earned or else containing a pithy little blurb.

Trophies for the RPGC contests will also be handed out soon.

Last but not least, the Winners of the Second Labour have finally had their stories added to The Twelve Labours Victory Archives. My apologies for not adding them earlier, but as some of you may have noticed, Necromancy is a widely reviled and banned esoteric practice in many parts of the forum.

[Gwynbleidd]

Thanks Terminal, you're awesome!

[Loksfjoer]

Okay, so maybe I just don't know enough of the English vocabulary to understand the assignments after reading through it once or the choice of words is deliberately challenging. Just like the previous challenge it will take a bit for me to grasp what is needed to meet the requirements. Don't get me wrong, I love the use of words. It's just I don't often have to look up words to understand what is being said. This challenge will need a day or so to sink in, but I'm looking forward in tackling the assignment.

[Dedonus]

Okay, so maybe I just don't know enough of the English vocabulary to understand the assignments after reading through it once or the choice of words is deliberately challenging. Just like the previous challenge it will take a bit for me to grasp what is needed to meet the requirements. Don't get me wrong, I love the use of words. It's just I don't often have to look up words to understand what is being said. This challenge will need a day or so to sink in, but I'm looking forward in tackling the assignment.

@WiseDragonGirl

I'm a native English speaker and even to me the wording seems intentionally difficult (and probably unnecessarily so). Honestly, I think the only confusing part of the challenge is "rainbow" text. I personally need some clarification on what qualifies for an "ambivalent" character. Is it a character who is just indifferent over something or having conflicting feelings over something?

[Blitz]

<Snipped quote by WiseDragonGirl>

I'm a native English speaker and even to me the wording seems intentionally difficult (and probably unnecessarily so). Honestly, I think the only confusing part of the challenge is "rainbow" text. I personally need some clarification on what qualifies for an "ambivalent" character. Is it a character who is just indifferent over something or having conflicting feelings over something?

@Dedonus

This was my take on it... By ambivalent, I'm guessing our character is simply an average joe. Not someone of pure evil or goodness. Someone who has good qualities but also has traces of greed and other flaws. This kind of person as the main character would make attaining his or her goal even more difficult, since their own personality may be conflicting with it... Something along those lines, I suppose?

If I'm wrong here though, feel free to clarify so I don't screw up LOL

[Keyguyperson]

Hmmmm.

Given a sliiiiiight tweak, I have a good story for this. Not sure if I can write it with all the other ideas in my head, but this time I think I'll try.

[PlatinumSkink]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalright, then. I've got the problem that either all of my characters can do this challenge or none of them can. I mean, there is almost none among my characters I cannot point at and say either "That's a good person" or "That's a bad person". Either case, there is none of my "good person"s that doesn't have flaws or temptations, and there is none of my "bad person"s is without underlying morals and those they'd wish to protect. ... Except a few.

However, if this is, as the clarification describes, "a story for the common person", then I do believe that I have an idea. A thoroughly ridiculous one. Haha.

[Psyga315]

I think I already know what story to go for.

[aurorastorm]

Question, I guess this is just generally but it can also apply to this one. What if our story straddles multiple topics? Could we resubmit the story if a prompt comes up that might be more 'on the nose'? Like, say a person wrote about an ambivalent favorite character wanting to die, fulfilling the first and third labors, could a person submit their story for both?

[RomanAria]

@aurorastorm The first labor is already over. All completed labors are no longer accepting entries. Not to my knowledge, anyway. And "wanting to die" wouldn't be a fulfillment of the first labor. It had to have been an unpleasant, or undesirable, death.
@terminal Clarification needed regarding acceptance of entries.

[aurorastorm]

@RomanAria I know, and I know that the example I stated wouldn't exactly have fit with the first prompt, I was just trying to give some kind of example, thank you though.

[Psyga315]

Now that I think of it, not sure if the story is good for the contest, since said character sort of has a huge moral compass and he's not a common man.

[Terminal]

@aurorastorm The first labor is already over. All completed labors are no longer accepting entries. Not to my knowledge, anyway. And "wanting to die" wouldn't be a fulfillment of the first labor. It had to have been an unpleasant, or undesirable, death.
@terminal Clarification needed regarding acceptance of entries.

@RomanAria

I have thought about trying to find a way to allow for past Labours to be completed in the here and now. Several times, and with a few other parties just to try and get a broader perspective.

The fact of the matter is, while it would be most convenient for contestants if they could fulfill Labours at any given time, it robs the task somewhat of their inherent pressure and difficulty. Especially if people are able to tell what the Labour will be in advance. Part of the difficulty derived from The Twelve Labours is not merely the nature of the challenges, but the time limit and the element of the unknown involved with each challenge.

Sadly this means previous challenges cannot be revisited. If I decide to host secondary challenges that start from the first again, I will devise new tasks inherent to each just to keep things interesting.

[Dedonus]

@Terminal, I'm still not quite sure if I quite grasp the first part of the prompt, particularly the "ambivalent" part. I understand the two extremes (basically outcast and the moral compass), but would the following be an accurate picture of what the main character should be?

Main Character really desires something. However, something about themselves (habits, personality, life choices, etc.) hinder the Main Character from reaching that desire. The Main Character is torn over this desire: he really desires the goal, but he cannot let go of the hindrance. The story should be about the Main Character attempting to "let go" of that hindrance. If he succeeds, he will gain the desire. If he cannot let go, the desire will slip away.

Example