Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Vordak
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@Willy Vereb

I think that a good way to avoid these "coincidences" is to enforce a rule which requires any environmental destruction with beneficial results to be either intentional or situationally unavoidable. If the attack isn't aimed specifically to do collateral damage, then it will always do the minimal amount of it possible.

For example, the attacker may gain an advantage by striking a building support and collapsing said building onto their enemy. If there was no prior mention of the target being near the support, then an attack aimed solely at them will have no chance of hitting it - it is neither intended to strike said support, nor does the context of the previous posts make hitting it unavoidable.

If the target were to be standing right in front of it, then the support is within reach of the attack and will be affected by collateral damage, whether intended or not. Same if the attacker plans ahead and strikes from an angle that permits hitting the support.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Willy Vereb
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Willy Vereb The Wordy Engineer

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What you were talking about Willy is mostly covered by T1 which is in fact a guideline for a large number of fights here and does serve the purpose of balancing fights though I'd refute your claim that this balance is somehow 'skewed' and assume you have used the word incorrectly.

For example, combos are for the most part a bad idea, T1 is designed to cut up movements into individual attacks with cause and effect resolved before moving onto the next move. Most of the time your opponent won't be hit with your first move, which leaves you vulnerable if you haven't left your post open so your character can react to their failed move.

For example, if you post your character attempting a five punch combo that's what they're going to do, regardless of your opponent's reaction, if you include that your character will be ready to abandon their attack you may be ok in this situation, but it's more effective just to post your initial attack and then if your opponent is opened up in a way that makes further combo possible post the next attack in your next turn.

Interruptions are a pain in Arena, but they are the life blood of combat, that's where the most important rule comes in, logic. Only a certain amount of action is capable in a certain timescale and that is where the turn based aspect of T1 comes into play.

Preps work on the assumption that an opponent taking their time with their attack has more right in a combat between two opponents of roughly physical skill (IC, not OOC) to score a more critical hit. Guns in theory should work under this same theory, if you take a turn to aim your pistol you've essentially scoped in on a target and have more accuracy, your opponent is less likely to call bullshit on your insane accuracy and ninja-dodge your ass and instead take the hit as fair for not getting out of the way in the turn they had.

It's a fairly loose fitting guideline with a lot of personal interpretation, but there is no end-all system for combat and so far T1 makes the most sense to me.
as I said T1 is just a summary on what we do during RP battles and adding a turn-based game mechanic to them.
As for combos, it's exactly because breaking up the post into many tiny parts breaks the impact. Making only a few lines worth of response is a also pain in the eyes. Like any RP the battles should be similarly about writing a fun story.
Of course you shouldn't abuse combos and neither present them as if it's an autohit.
The key is on using future tense in the non-definite form.
"Cory attempts to grab Ken and while they are mid-air. Cory's planned follow-up involves shifting his center of gravity to perform a downwards screwdriver and nail Ken's head in the asphalt."
This is a combo yet it also effectively flows into one attack. That's one of the secrets to perform a feasible combo in RP battles.
Of course somebody detailing dozens of different attacks spread over minutes in one post is plain nonsense which would be pointless.
As for the 5-hit combo I disagree.
That's a great way to add some variety and complexity to physical battles so long the said attacks are performed under a short time and can effectively flow together.
"Kory delivers a punch to Ken's face and then plans to immediately follow up with a knee to the gut."
Or
"Kory sweeps at Ken's leg in order to take away his footing. His aim is to destabilize Ken and position him right into his second attack, a powerful forward thrust delivered by his right fist using Kory's entire weight."
In the latter case this form is also preferable because even if the first attack hits the player with "Ken" would respond in a way that his character is already on the floor. Thus robbing you of the occasion to deliver your second attack while mid-air.
This is the second large argument behind reasonable combos. It actually allows you to use the little time windows when needed instead of the opponent effectively cutting that off from you, either deliberately but generally it's because they just never imagined this to happen.
Trying to cling to the one attack per post limit at all costs is actually hurting the RP.

As for your idea with using "prep" to aim better.
It never works in my opinion. First off, the opponent usually crosses whatever distance lies between you and him until he can effectively attack under a single post unless it's extremely long.
Second, when you "prep" you aren't contributing anything to the battle thus you put the other player into a strange situation.
Instead I feel it's better if you include the prep along with your planned attack.
So if the other player does so many things it actually gives you a chance to attack then the other player knows exactly how to depict his response to the incoming shots.
Player A sets up a machinegun and prepares to shoot the agile ninja Player B who is say 40 meters away.
Player B posts that he runs straight for Player A to reduce the distance. But he accurately judges that under that time Player A would have the machinegun set-up and ready so he also describes how he moves from cover to cover to avoid the bullets.
That's a classic way how it goes.
Without it you only have a clusterfuck, for example the two players arguing that Player B can only move X meters before he finishes setting up the gun.
Simply put this only obstructs the narrative.

Another thing against an enforced "turn system" is that not all attacks are close to instant. Especially not when the fighters are super-fast.
One character may throw a grenade which has the fuse timer of say 4 seconds.
Then next attack is from an SMG which pretty much empties its 30-bullet magazine under 3 seconds.
Just because an attack came first you don't need to deal with it in that order. If a guy threw the grenade it doesn't mean you have 4 whole seconds of time mirror against him to attack.
Of course people usually do actions to avoid the first attack, too. But then they need to deal with the others.
A reasonable conduct if the slower first attack and its immediate faster follow-up is presented in the same post. Provided if the interval between these two attack is indeed short enough to justify this.
Another example of a combo.

@MelonHead I have nothing against "manipulating" the environment to gain the upper hand. The problem is when somebody does it in a rather underhanded way. And I don't mean this in-character but in the meta sense.

@Willy Vereb

I think that a good way to avoid these "coincidences" is to enforce a rule which requires any environmental destruction with beneficial results to be either intentional or situationally unavoidable. If the attack isn't aimed specifically to do collateral damage, then it will always do the minimal amount of it possible.

For example, the attacker may gain an advantage by striking a building support and collapsing said building onto their enemy. If there was no prior mention of the target being near the support, then an attack aimed solely at them will have no chance of hitting it - it is neither intended to strike said support, nor does the context of the previous posts make hitting it unavoidable.

If the target were to be standing right in front of it, then the support is within reach of the attack and will be affected by collateral damage, whether intended or not. Same if the attacker plans ahead and strikes from an angle that permits hitting the support.
That can work in case of the rocket example I said.
Albeit there are many other means. I read battle where the attacker determined how exactly will the debris fall, for example.
Still, I think such abuses aren't too difficult to spot if you are looking for them.
So the true answer lies on pretty much just spotting them rather than ignoring these, IMO.

Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Vordak
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@Willy Vereb

I have already explicitly stated that we do not strictly use T1 as a turn based system, so there isn't any purpose to argue that that would be ineffective.

As for how you describe a combo, that idea is pretty sound and many do actually write in such a manner - albeit that is not exactly what we call a combo. A combo, to clear it up, is a series of actions carried out in one post, while the examples you provided involved only planning out said actions. But yeah, you're absolutely right otherwise.

P.S. - the "prep" idea was never fully understood by me, nor did it truly appeal, so i have nothing to say on that matter.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

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A quick rundown.

Preps are fairly easy to get. They allow for stronger attacks, or in the cases of guns, allow for more accurate attacks - the shot between breaths and the like. It allows prevents people from spamming attacks. Case in point, me and Frokane could have went longer, but without having to prep, he was basically dead in the water against Kusanagi and Kei'taro.

The more preps you have means the stronger your attack is. To equal this out, preps can go into defense, which - if equal - can negate a fairly strong attack.

As far as damage to the arena, that comes as it does. People could start including potential arena damage, if they should miss; but usually it doesn't actually become a problem. If it does, then the players can talk it out, or call in a judge - similar to most problems.

Combos can go as Verb asked, with potential follow up attacks. In fact, many people actually do that. The problem comes in when people, as mentioned, try to send off 100000 attacks in a single post. Hence, interrupts. I stop your second, it doesn't matter how many times you said he'd attack - it's all dependent on the former being successful, and the second being stopped, means the third doesn't happen.

All in all though, it seems it was more or less handled. Nothing has really been hindered, in many of the fights I saw, by the T1 rules; once understood, it actually keeps the fights logical, and forces people to plan ahead, instead of

X sends of three magic beams of asskickery, without any actual preparation or any real reasoning why. And they can continue doing it post after post after post.

But the most important thing is, both parties can sit and come up with their own ruleset for their fight.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Bartimaeus
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Bartimaeus Femboy Gaming

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Okay i need some advice:
Either i can have a parasitic character that that can jump inside an ally and add their healths together and boost stats and stuff and can use his abilities through his ally
or
i ccan have a parasitic character that can sit away from the fight, but be almost completely helpless stat-wise and can use its abilities through allies and can transfer health from himself to his ally(but only by physical contact).
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Bartimaeus
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Im leaning towards the second one.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

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Okay i need some advice:
Either i can have a parasitic character that that can jump inside an ally and add their healths together and boost stats and stuff and can use his abilities through his ally
or
i ccan have a parasitic character that can sit away from the fight, but be almost completely helpless stat-wise and can use its abilities through allies and can transfer health from himself to his ally(but only by physical contact).


It seems, on the second one, physical contact counteracts sitting far off.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Vordak
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I think what you mean is a mutal symbiont, not parasite, since the latter is not beneficial to it's host in any way. Im surprised you lean towards your second option though, since that just seems like a generic healer/buffer magician character than an actual symbiont, which uses biological interaction to aid its host.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Bartimaeus
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Bartimaeus Femboy Gaming

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Ive heard it been called that before, didnt know what it meant, but ill trust ye. :)
But anyway, that was only a small peice of what the character was for.

@Rilla Dont wanna make it too easy, and for the first choice you cant heal if your adding the healths together already.

I want it to be fun for the team using it, and interesting for the team dying indirectly by it. ;)
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

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In general, healing mid-battle is frowned upon - without a heavy cost anyway.

And Vordak is right. Symbiotic relationships are mutual beneficial. Parasitic ones are not.

Go with the first one, but make it a pair. One to be melded with, and one that is the meld. Like Venom, perhaps

The second is better for multi-man tag matches.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Bartimaeus
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Bartimaeus Femboy Gaming

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One to be melded with and one to meld what do you mean?

Also, the healing thing is like the symbiote stealing his allies wounds and applying them to himself.
So like taking a wound that would be nothing to someone like,The Splatterer could still kill the symbiote if bad enough.

Also, I think ima post both sheets and then see which one sounds better. This is based off of one of my favorite video game characters. :D
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

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Think Spiderman and Venom in the movies.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Bartimaeus
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Bartimaeus Femboy Gaming

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All i know about venom is what he looks like.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Skallagrim
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Skallagrim Walker between Worlds

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What is the ultimate goal of this symbiote?
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Bartimaeus
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Bartimaeus Femboy Gaming

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I want a support that stays away from the fight(mostly), but still heavily influences it.

If youve ever played Heroes of The Storm and have been Abathur, thats basisically it.
Hidden 9 yrs ago 9 yrs ago Post by Vordak
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You might just want to go with an trap master/combat robot support type of character then, maybe with some barrier creation included. This way, your character will be as good in a solo fight as he would be in a team.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Skallagrim
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Skallagrim Walker between Worlds

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I remember in a NOW tournament, there was a very capable caster that created walls. I cannot remember the writer but it was an amazingly unique character.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Bartimaeus
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Bartimaeus Femboy Gaming

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I dont know ewhat NOW is, but the point of the character is he will die on his own.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Skallagrim
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Skallagrim Walker between Worlds

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Ah. Interesting twist on an arena character. A character that has no defensive abilities.
Hidden 9 yrs ago Post by Rilla
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Rilla SuperNova Generation / The Lazy Storyteller

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Sounds like Skallagrim.
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