[OOC] Nexus of Worlds- Darkness Rising- A Guild Tournament

[Vordak]

I guess Skallagrim might have a point. While realistically, it would indeed be an undodgeable, there is always some leeway included in arena fights; unless Raelis puts himself in a vulnerable position, dodging the attack would be fair, allowing that to happen would be good sportsmanship, and that's what matters.

[Skallagrim]

The whole concept of the arena multiverse is insane, we must allow for leeway or the whole things goes down the crapper.

[GreivousKhan]

I guess Skallagrim might have a point. While realistically, it would indeed be an undodgeable, there is always some leeway included in arena fights.

@Vordak

NO BUT OP THOUGH!

I'm mad people made you rage quite because they thought your PC was OP.

[Vordak]

<Snipped quote by Vordak>

NO BUT OP THOUGH!

I'm mad people made you rage quite because they thought your PC was OP.

@GreivousKhan

Eh, he kinda was the way i wrote him - though i guess i could've used him nevertheless, since the only OP thing about him that i couldn't change was his insane survivability; but taking in mind that killing your opponent isn't a victory condition in NoW, that wouldn't've been a problem.

[Skallagrim]

I told you, now go make yourself present in the lobby, remember punch Rilla and you win. . .

[Rilla]

I guess Skallagrim might have a point. While realistically, it would indeed be an undodgeable, there is always some leeway included in arena fights; unless Raelis puts himself in a vulnerable position, dodging the attack would be fair, allowing that to happen would be good sportsmanship, and that's what matters.

@Vordak

Leeway is fleeting, to be honest. Sometimes its there and sometimes its not. Personally, I'm willing to allow some stuff to happen, if it makes sense, but others may not be so forgiving.

That's why I think fights, competitive or not, have become far too technical to be much fun. Too many numbers, to the point, if you play them straight, you may not be able to do much. Now everything is can you actually do it, blahblahblah.

While I don't know what Khan's flash step requires - at first sight 760 mph, in a 30 foot zone, seems way to much - based off a previous fight with Kei'taro where he used Kusanagi in a relatively small area and one shot Frokane's character.

But, as I'm not judging, and as I mentioned - I don't know what his flashstep entails, so, meh.

[yoshua171]

@Skallagrim
Actually no. I knew you were going to yell at me btw. Your ability to see, hear, smell, feel, and taste is MUCH slower than your physical ability to move and react to what you're perceiving.

At that speed and at that distance unless your character is stated to have reflexes AND perceptual ability far beyond Khazna's, which is saying something you're not gonna be able to do much.

I like how people see the number and stop reading the rest of what flash-step is/requires.

@GreivousKhan

Actually, I read the full ability...thrice.

I'm basing my statement off of physics so I have hard numbers on the subject, rather than just preconceived notions.

760 mph=1114 feet per second.

11.14 feet per millisecond.

3 milliseconds to reach a person 30 feet away.

Minimum human reaction time .07 seconds, or 7 milliseconds (for something very simple, like blinking)
complex reaction times are .15 seconds, or 15 milliseconds (for something like a parry or dodge)

And that doesn't take into account variation in nerve conduction velocity.

No I'm not assuming that we're dealing with normal humans however, no one, except maybe Raelis, is stated to have far beyond human capacities of reaction time/perception acuity.

Raelis only has it as a side effect of him having partially avian physiology. His perceptual abilities and reaction speed are adjusted for a creature that flies at high velocities. I'm doing a bit of research on it at the moment actually.

He might be the only contender at the moment who could beat Khazna/match Khazna at full speed. Except his max ground speed is 80 mph, which is 36 meters per second. That's 1 foot a millisecond, meaning he would barely be capable of maybe moving out of Khazna's direct path of movement and ducking under a blade swipe or whatnot. Given Khazna's increased reaction time though (given that his vision hasn't quite blurred around him yet), he could compensate for that and still kill him immediately.

So if Raelis loses, I'm not so sure you're going to have anyone capable of dodging the bastard. This is also not taking into mind that his swords would be capable of cutting through virtually anything due to them being indestructible and them having so much force behind a single blow from a sword whilst moving at top, or near top, speed.

Oh yeah and if he blocked a strike with his own indestructible blade, which he could it would break all the bones in his arms and slam his own blade back into his chest, breaking multiple ribs (and maybe part of his jaw bone), after which he would go flying and be too disoriented by the pain to properly do anything about it.

Khazna's speed is virtually uncounterable...and that's coming from a guy who focuses on countering.

Best I could do would be to maybe deflect most of the blow, but Raelis would still get fucked up just from blocking.

I'M NOT BRINGING THIS UP FOR MY SAKE. I'm stating it because I decided to take a glance here and saw he could remove his training weights, double checked his speed and then went "Whaaaaat, that's something I'd expect to see on a High Powered character, not a low to mid powered one."

[GreivousKhan]

<Snipped quote by Vordak>

Leeway is fleeting, to be honest. Sometimes its there and sometimes its not. Personally, I'm willing to allow some stuff to happen, if it makes sense, but others may not be so forgiving.

That's why I think fights, competitive or not, have become far too technical to be much fun. Too many numbers, to the point, if you play them straight, you may not be able to do much. Now everything is can you actually do it, blahblahblah.

While I don't know what Khan's flash step requires - at first sight 760 mph, in a 30 foot zone, seems way to much - based off a previous fight with Kei'taro where he used Kusanagi in a relatively small area and one shot Frokane's character.

But, as I'm not judging, and as I mentioned - I don't know what his flashstep entails, so, meh.

@Rilla

Well to explain it in better detail. He can only flash-point effectively to wherever there is a sword(or clone).

Basically you should think less of it as super speed and more a pseudo teleport. For Him to cut someone in half with it, he would need to get a sword behind them, make sure their not moving while doing that, then align it just so that their on his path to the sword. Honesty at that point if someone can prep that much without you moving you kind of deserve the hit.

You're a Naruto fan(I think), so think of the Yellow Flash and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Only without the insane range. :K

If someone wants a visualization of what that would look like..



Damn shame Raelis can't fly....damn damn damn shame...for me :(

*marks the day he will be able to pull of omni-slash further ahead on the calendar.*

[Skallagrim]

You have two options, stick with your hang up and give up now. Or accept the fact that the GM said you can deal with him and his powers and go about the fight.

Stop stressing about needless crap, you counter, HE WILL NOT break any of your bones, you can survive the shock. Too many people thinking that THEY can run my tournament better than I can. Just fight. God I am getting pissed now.

[Rilla]

Luckily I know what the Yellow Flash is, but I'm not that big of a Naruto fan. I'm a bigger Bleach fan, or you could have even used a one piece reference with the Rokushiki, particularly the Soru technique. Hahah

[GreivousKhan]

Luckily I know what the Yellow Flash is, but I'm not that big of a Naruto fan. I'm a bigger Bleach fan, or you could have even used a one piece reference with the Rokushiki, particularly the Soru technique. Hahah

@Rilla

Sadly I don't know who Rokushiki is. :P

In fact I'm sure I can't pronounce it. Have yet to really watch One Peice, maybe on day. As for Bleach...meh, I kind of lost interest in it when they started repeating the whole kidnap and go save them archs. Was interesting while it lasted though.

Aizen is a rare example of something worse than OP. God mod.

[Rilla]

<Snipped quote by Rilla>

Sadly I don't know who Rokushiki is. :P

In fact I'm sure I can't pronounce it. Have yet to really watch One Peice, maybe on day. As for Bleach...meh, I kind of lost interest in it when they started repeating the whole kidnap and go save them archs. Was interesting while it lasted though.

Aizen is a rare example of something worse than OP. God mod.

@GreivousKhan

It's the name of a technique. xD. You should watch it though, it's pretty decent.

I lost interest in Bleach when it became Ichigo is literally everything the enemy is.

Human/Shinigami
Shinigami/Hollow
Shinigami/Hollow/Fullbringer
Shinigami/Hollow/Fullbringer/Quincy

[Skallagrim]

I use bleach in my laundry, does that count?

[yoshua171]

_{<Snipped quote by Rilla>}
Well to explain it in better detail. He can only flash-point effectively to wherever there is a sword(or clone).

Basically you should think less of it as super speed and more a pseudo teleport. For Him to cut someone in half with it, he would need to get a sword behind them, make sure their not moving while doing that, then align it just so that their on his path to the sword. Honesty at that point if someone can prep that much without you moving you kind of deserve the hit.

You're a Naruto fan(I think), so think of the Yellow Flash and you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. Only without the insane range. :K

Damn shame Raelis can't fly....damn damn damn shame...for me :(

*marks the day he will be able to pull of omni-slash further ahead on the calendar.*

@GreivousKhan

So I saw a mention of the sword thing in the description, but it didn't sound anything like this. However, that in mind it's a bit more reasonable. Granted, it's not like anyone has any way of knowing that he can do that. So it's still pretty much an insta kill.

I appreciate the clarification by the way.

You have two options, stick with your hang up and give up now. Or accept the fact that the GM said you can deal with him and his powers and go about the fight.

@Skallagrim

I never said I'd give up. I'm not so easy to break and I said I wasn't saying this for my benefit. I respect your position as the GM of this tournament. I was not questioning your decision to accept the character, perse, but instead the validity of someone moving at that speed given the general reaction time thing and the tier of the tournament.

This is the second time you've unnecessarily been excessively rude to me when I was just bringing up a point I felt needed to be addressed. I'll be going about the fight regardless to how ridiculous I find the ability.

However, I will say that your handling of being questioned or people questioning the abilities of characters has been...less than stellar in terms of attitude. I don't know if something is going on behind the scenes, which has got you particularly irritated or if you're just coming off that way accidentally (correct me if I'm wrong), but it seems like you're treating any dissenter as if they were an unruly child, rather than a seasoned fighter and RPer. AKA your equal in all, but the status afforded to you by your hosting this tournament.

If this is how you generally handle things, then I may have to decline the next time I am offered a place to compete among the esteemed and skilled RPers gathered here and in the rest of the arena *bows his head to you all respectfully* as I simply cannot handle being talked down to repeatedly for no reason other than my questioning something.

This not to be confused with random trash talking, which is often amusing, rather than infuriating, or aggravating (to all of the parties involved), such as this has been.

[Skallagrim]

I am tired of people questioning my tournament and my ability to read/judge a character or fight. It is not just you, it is others. I am tired of it, in fact I my stop doing tournaments all together. If you feel somehow I was rude, I apologize for doing so. But instead of questioning something because you feel it is unfair, why not just trust the GM and go about your business of fighting.

***

I have decided that this is it. I am done. This is my last NoW tournament. I am not going to argue with people anymore about what is fair and what is not. I am done.

[yoshua171]

Because if I had not said something, then I would have never known that the ability works only between Khazna's sword, which is valuable information. None of this would have become so serious if you had merely addressed the concern, rather than yelling at me for having it.

Also, I stated I was not questioning your authority, but the ability itself. You are human, as are we all (unless some of ya'll are secretly dogs...or aliens haha) so you're capable of missing something or making a mistake. Also, I try to avoid making assumptions about things, which sometimes means I need to ask more questions so I properly understand stuff that someone else might just assume is true. Only problem with assuming something is true is you could very well, and it seems people often are, wrong about their assumption.

In battle, assumptions and missteps due to inaccurate writing/reading/understanding (that your character would not have made a mistake on) is the death of you, or gets you badly injured.

Also, I've seen plenty of experienced GMs, including myself at times, miss something that makes a character terribly unreasonable. So yeah, no one is beyond reproach.

I apologize if it bothers you that I ask questions, but I honestly will not stop doing so if that act would disadvantage me in a way that nothing else could.

Knowledge is power after all.

AND KNOWING IS HALF THE BATTLE

"G-I Joe!"

[LeeRoy]

What just happened?

[GreivousKhan]

What just happened?

@LeeRoy

Miscommunication and hurt feelz.

[Skallagrim]

Not hurt feelz here. But I am done running tourneys on this site.

[MelonHead]

Weird seeing an argument I haven't caused for once.

I see no issue with Yoshua's queries, I think the issue here is that there really is no decent distinction between what is statistically assured and what T1 is set in place to balance. If the point of T1 is that every action is completely equal, then how do the varying unique powers and the like interact? How does anyone decide how much damage anything should do? What statistics do we ignore when deciding how something works and what do we follow? Yoshua is right technically, there are so many scientific implausibilities in that power that its existence should really boost the tier of Khan's character beyond the majority of characters here, but T1 in theory balances it, at least it's supposed to. The thing is, if T1 makes everything balanced, why do character tiers exist? Surely every character is fundamentally the same then and therefore tier is unimportant, but as every imbalanced fight ever seen has shown, tiers are definitely required to keep a fight entertaining and competitive.

I kind of agree with Rilla in the sense that the more technical Arena fights get the less fun they are from an artistic perspective, but T1 is specifically designed for competition and yet really doesn't do a particularly good job of explaining much of anything at all. Do you just accept someone can do something everytime they do it, regardless of if it makes logical sense, just because T1 states all things are equal? It doesn't really allow for the natural imbalances, the strengths and weaknesses, that make any match-up fun.

I dunno, seems like someone needs to re-iterate what T1 means in regards to this forum, because it's unsatisfactory in many ways as it stands, at least for me. I'm growing tired of the current system, I can exploit it easily with really very minimal effort, I choose not to most of the time because I really do believe this should be about fun and interesting stories rather than just winning, but the tournaments are ultimately competitive, and they need a rule-set that everyone fully understands to stop these issues cropping up.