[OOC] House of the Rising Sun [reloaded]

[thorgili]

Hmm Ebert Von Graffe I do like the name. ANyhow I am sorry its taking so long for me to write up my history/CS I've been awfully busy.

[Xilaw]

Hmm Ebert Von Graffe I do like the name. ANyhow I am sorry its taking so long for me to write up my history/CS I've been awfully busy.

@thorgili

Take your time. It took me a while to write my own down, as well. At points, it gets a little confusing with all the names and years, that's why I suggested making a family tree first to put it all to an understandable perspective.

[UltikanaRe]

<Snipped quote by UltikanaRe>
I wrote in my Family History that it was Jean de Fleurs who was granted the county. Is the name okay or should I change it?

@Xilaw

Jean works perfectly. Making family tree now.

[UltikanaRe]

OK, finally finished my Family Tree with bonus insignia and map, but I did not include years. Are those necessary? I can easily add them for all the guys with titles, but do I need to make them for the wives and children? That would really suck.

[mrambo90]

Finally finished the family tree

[Xilaw]

OK, finally finished my Family Tree with bonus insignia and map, but I did not include years. Are those necessary? I can easily add them for all the guys with titles, but do I need to make them for the wives and children? That would really suck.

@UltikanaRe

Just add the years to the ones that are still alive so we know how old they are.

[UltikanaRe]

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Just add the years to the ones that are still alive so we know how old they are.

@Xilaw

Alright. Does this also include the people without titles? I ask because the wives/children don't tend to do anything important except comic relief and childbirth, which I figured I would cover in the description of head of the household.

[Xilaw]

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Alright. Does this also include the people without titles? I ask because the wives/children don't tend to do anything important except comic relief and childbirth, which I figured I would cover in the description of head of the household.

@UltikanaRe

Yeah, just add years of everyone alive no matter who they are.

[UltikanaRe]

Question: if you are a French family, can you use French noble ranks? It seems more appropriate to the story, but i am unfamiliar with how this would have actually worked.

[Xilaw]

Question: if you are a French family, can you use French noble ranks? It seems more appropriate to the story, but i am unfamiliar with how this would have actually worked.

@UltikanaRe

Well, the German name for Count is Graf, but we are using English forms so there's no confusion. I suppose I don't see a problem. Most French titles sound similar to English, anyway.

[UltikanaRe]

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Well, the German name for Count is Graf, but we are using English forms so there's no confusion. I suppose I don't see a problem. Most French titles sound similar to English, anyway.

@Xilaw

I mean, in the story, instead of Graf could they be Viscount, Baron, etc.? Not just for how they are written, I mean can I use those ranks as a replacement.

[Xilaw]

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I mean, in the story, instead of Graf could they be Viscount, Baron, etc.? Not just for how they are written, I mean can I use those ranks as a replacement.

@UltikanaRe

Sure. As long as it's not higher than the title of duke or count. Baron is also an English title (counterpart to German Herr) so it's acceptable. Viscount, too, was used in England and is equal to German Burgrave. Both titles you mentioned are available already.

[UltikanaRe]

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Sure. As long as it's not higher than the title of duke or count. Baron is also an English title (counterpart to German Herr) so it's acceptable. Viscount, too, was used in England and is equal to German Burgrave. Both titles you mentioned are available already.

@Xilaw

Great, thanks. Going to revamp family tree.

[UltikanaRe]

Hm, I was looking here and noticed some things:
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/odegard/titlefaq.htm
The titles for everything is always: Jean, Comte de <Lastname, name which is alway equivalent to the place name>. This leaves me wondering if I should make my family name Dobersburg...

[Xilaw]

Hm, I was looking here and noticed some things:
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/odegard/titlefaq.htm
The titles for everything is always: Jean, Comte de <Lastname, name which is alway equivalent to the place name>. This leaves me wondering if I should make my family name Dobersburg...

@UltikanaRe

In most cases a last name and family house name were separate things. In both French and German case with house names that have prefixes "zu", "von" or "de", these are not the surnames of family members. They simply mean from where their house comes from or which area they rule. For example, the person who founded my family house was a knight by the name Karl Schultz and he was granted a fief - a small village or Rastenburg. So when his house was founded his name literally meant "Karl of Rastenburg".

Even though the head of the house may have moved on to a different location (e.g I've become duke of Manburg), most houses didn't change the name accordingly because certain family names hold weight and are well renowned. Habsburgs are a prime example. French house of Valois hails from the old medieval region in northern France called Valois, hence the name. :)

If your family was French nobility before coming to Austria then their family name would still be French, e.g "de Fleurs" would simply mean you are from a town/castle/village of Fleurs (probably doesn't exist but it doesn't really matter) and could keep it despite owning land in Manburg.

[UltikanaRe]

<Snipped quote by UltikanaRe>
In most cases a last name and family house name were separate things. In both French and German case with house names that have prefixes "zu", "von" or "de", these are not the surnames of family members. They simply mean from where their house comes from or which area they rule. For example, the person who founded my family house was a knight by the name Karl Schultz and he was granted a fief - a small village or Rastenburg. So when his house was founded his name literally meant "Karl of Rastenburg".

Even though the head of the house may have moved on to a different location (e.g I've become duke of Manburg), most houses didn't change the name accordingly because certain family names hold weight and are well renowned. Habsburgs are a prime example. French house of Valois hails from the old medieval region in northern France called Valois, hence the name. :)

If your family was French nobility before coming to Austria then their family name would still be French, e.g "de Fleurs" would simply mean you are from a town/castle/village of Fleurs (probably doesn't exist but it doesn't really matter) and could keep it despite owning land in Manburg.

@Xilaw

I know that, but I mean my house should really be de/von Dobersburg instead of Fleurs, as that is the land I now have. Similarly to how you were Karl Schlutz, then Karl von Rastenburg because you inherited Rastenburg. Granted, even though you cahnged a bit, I would have de Paris or something, meaning that it actually existed. In any case I would like to edit my house name, as I had just thought of it as a fairly random last name before reading this. Either that or changing the County names, whhich I would assume would not be a good thing. If you would accept this, I will go with the title Günther von Drosendorf, as I planned to have it so that I was a disinherited son of a noble, who was sent to Manburg to become a knight, who was then given a fief and became Herr von Drosendorf. Note that I am flipping the story from what I would have done with French homeland to Austria, this is mostly because I felt like it but I could maintain de Fleurs or something French if the general issue here was solved. then, as Herr of Drosendorf, which became even more powerful and became a good name, I helped in the formation of the Duchy. Now as far as the issue of retaining the birth name, being that I was a fairly removed part of a lower noble house, who sent me away anyhow, it makes less sense that I would retain that name..
I know that is probably pretty complicated, but I think it makes sense. Does it?

[Xilaw]

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I know that, but I mean my house should really be de/von Dobersburg instead of Fleurs, as that is the land I now have. Similarly to how you were Karl Schlutz, then Karl von Rastenburg because you inherited Rastenburg. Granted, even though you cahnged a bit, I would have de Paris or something, meaning that it actually existed.

@UltikanaRe

Not quite what I had in mind, but okay.

In any case I would like to edit my house name, as I had just thought of it as a fairly random last name before reading this. Either that or changing the County names, whhich I would assume would not be a good thing. If you would accept this, I will go with the title Günther von Drosendorf, as I planned to have it so that I was a disinherited son of a noble, who was sent to Manburg to become a knight, who was then given a fief and became Herr von Drosendorf. Note that I am flipping the story from what I would have done with French homeland to Austria, this is mostly because I felt like it but I could maintain de Fleurs or something French if the general issue here was solved. then, as Herr of Drosendorf, which became even more powerful and became a good name, I helped in the formation of the Duchy. Now as far as the issue of retaining the birth name, being that I was a fairly removed part of a lower noble house, who sent me away anyhow, it makes less sense that I would retain that name..
I know that is probably pretty complicated, but I think it makes sense. Does it?

Not an issue what so ever. Günther von Drosendorf is not a problem, of course. I simply said if your family was already noble before getting fiefs in Manburg, it can keep it's French name regardless of gaining new territory in Germanic-speaking areas. As I said, I would prefer German family names since it is a German duchy, but I accept others, as well.

[UltikanaRe]

<Snipped quote by UltikanaRe>
Not quite what I had in mind, but okay.

<Snipped quote>
Not an issue what so ever. Günther von Drosendorf is not a problem, of course. I simply said if your family was already noble before getting fiefs in Manburg, it can keep it's French name regardless of gaining new territory in Germanic-speaking areas. As I said, I would prefer German family names since it is a German duchy, but I accept others, as well.

@Xilaw

Great, thanks!

[Xilaw]

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Great, thanks! BTW it's Austrian ;-)

@UltikanaRe

Lol, alright.

[UltikanaRe]

Spent 3+ hours on it, hope you enjoy! Any critiques welcome before I begin the bios. I also included vassals of note, but i will only be doing bios for the prominent titleholders, i.e. the adult male von Drosendorfs and Freidrich von Allensteig. Also, please correct my German.
BTW: Motto is 'Strength and Justice'