[OOC] The Three Realms War [A DMC, Bayonetta and Darksiders RP]

[Lmpkio]

@rivaan Np lol

[IncredibleBee]

@Lugubrious

If we're going by DMC/action game rules, proper etiquette mandates mook waves before sub-bosses before bosses. Even then, I don't really need to worry about Tickler, because Gene's got that locked down what with the liver shot and all. Lastly, having Devil Arms doesn't really matter if you're a total scrub. And these are nameless mooks. Therefore, total scrubs, no matter how fancy their guns.

As an aside, where'd you get a mook army's worth of Devil Arms? They only spawn from rather powerful demons. Even the Order of the Sword, which was an extremely powerful organization concerned with fighting said demons and taking over the world only managed to find four on its own. One of which was snapped in half. Hell, even Dante's collection numbers at maybe ten.

[Sho Minazuki]

@IncredibleBee Who is the one running this RP, you, or me?

A hack and slash game is an entirely different animal to an RP, we're separating gameplay from established in-game world. How they perform in gameplay is for the sake of making a game, it in no way fully represents how the characters would actually perform in a narrative setting. Do you know the concept of separating gameplay from established world? Do you?

Next, those are artificial Devil Arms, weaker, made by Gilgamesh corp.

[Scrapula]

So, they're weakened Demon Arms that are still stronger than Antonio's blessed weapons?

[Sho Minazuki]

I think they should be around even. Blessed weapons should have less raw power, but greater slaying properties than any Devil Arm.

It's like choosing between a neutral element sword, that has great base stats, or a fire element sword that has low physical stats but does great against whatever is weak to fire.

[IncredibleBee]

@Sho Minazuki
Except what is shown in cutscenes doesn't really deviate from what's possible in-game. Furthermore, any game worth its salt, and I do hold DMC in very high regards, lets you have gameplay power that is roughly equivalent to what's possible in cutscenes. DMC shows Dante flipping around and surfing enemies, and sure enough, those are things you can do once it hands control over.

While we're at it, even cutscenes depict mooks as... mooks. They get torn up no problem. This RP is based on three different settings about tearing apart nameless enemies, and the six grunts fit that description pretty well.

Furthermore, what, to you, makes a Devil Arm stronger? Their inherent qualities are high durability (but not indestructibility, as evidenced by Yamato, a high-tier weapon) and generally some sort of magical property. For example, Ifrit is on fire and Nevan can shoot lightning blasts. But even Rebellion, Dante's mainstay, is for all intents and purposes just a claymore.
Also, how does one create artificial Devil Arms? Do you have artificial souls lying around? How are those created and what makes it more convenient than just developing better gun technology? Kalina Ann is mundane and it gets the job done with flying colors.

[itano123]

remember kids, gaameplay isn't lore

[ProPro]

Except what is shown in cutscenes doesn't really deviate from what's possible in-game.

Funny. Last time I let some mooks hit me, i saw my life meter drop a considerable amount, but when it happens in cut scenes it's a "walk it off" situation at the very worst. In the opening cut scene for DMC 3, all the scythes Dante takes at once would kill you unless you had multiple health upgrades, but he pretends they're not even there, and even weaponizes them. He's basically got high speed regeneration and isn't bothered by most anything unless he takes a ton of punishment over a long period of time.

Seriously, there is a definite segregation of story narrative and gameplay mechanics.

[Hantu Kongkek]

git gud smh tbh fam

[IncredibleBee]

<Snipped quote>

Funny. Last time I let some mooks hit me, i saw my life meter drop a considerable amount, but when it happens in cut scenes it's a "walk it off" situation at the very worst. In the opening cut scene for DMC 3, all the scythes Dante takes at once would kill you unless you had multiple health upgrades, but he pretends they're not even there, and even weaponizes them. He's basically got high speed regeneration and isn't bothered by most anything unless he takes a ton of punishment over a long period of time.

Seriously, there is a definite segregation of story narrative and gameplay mechanics.

@ProPro

Protip: Don't get hit. That enemy is super duper slow and doesn't have a lot of attack power. They're the punching bags given to you to practice controls on before the game starts.

Furthermore, Dante actually does have a fair bit of health. You won't have trouble tanking hits until you fight a boss, but an decent player is too SSStylish to hit.
That's the whole point of the taunt button.

[Sho Minazuki]

@IncredibleBee No. No it doesn't. First of all, that isn't even the problem. The cutscenes are a more cinematic that will portray information to the player, on both character and world. The gameplay is where you get to delve into that world with the preconception that you are this badass half demon ripping other demons apart thanks to those cutscenes. Gameplay is gameplay. Narrative is narrative.

They work hand in hand. Gameplay does not equal lore despite that. Sure gameplay is a huge part of DMC, but it does not equal lore. Sure, you can do some things that are shown in cutscenes, but that doesn't mean the gameplay IS the actual lore. Vergil didn't actually fight Berial, Baal, Dagon, Echidna, Agnus, or (in Fortuna at least) Dante. Neither did Trish or Lady. They were added as playable characters as fanservice and a special treat for the DMC4SE, and DMC's fans, you dolt.

[Scrapula]

<Snipped quote by ProPro>

Protip: Don't get hit. That enemy is super duper slow and doesn't have a lot of attack power. They're the punching bags given to you to practice controls on before the game starts.

Furthermore, Dante actually does have a fair bit of health. You won't have trouble tanking hits until you fight a boss, but an decent player is too SSStylish to hit.
That's the whole point of the taunt button.

@IncredibleBee

I'd say he's got a point on Cutscene Dante's durability compared to Game Dante. Their strength and speed are fairly close, but Cutscene Dante tanks a lot of stuff that would at least knock him back... like a sword to the chest.

What I think we're neglecting is that there wasn't much Antonio could have done in this situation that wasn't attacking and defeating the firing squad aiming at him quickly and efficiently. If he let down his shield, he'd be cut down quite quickly. If Gene hopped out and took the soldiers on while Antonio drew fire, I'd be arguing with you about this. The move was unusually effective, but it was used against a group of faceless, nameless thugs using things they couldn't easily block attacks with, and definitely boiled things down to the most interesting bit: a big fight between Antonio and Macbeth.

[Sho Minazuki]

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

I'd say he's got a point on Cutscene Dante's durability compared to Game Dante. Their strength and speed are fairly close, but Cutscene Dante tanks a lot of stuff that would at least knock him back... like a sword to the chest.

What I think we're neglecting is that there wasn't much Antonio could have done in this situation that wasn't attacking and defeating the firing squad aiming at him quickly and efficiently. If he let down his shield, he'd be cut down quite quickly. If Gene hopped out and took the soldiers on while Antonio drew fire, I'd be arguing with you about this. The move was unusually effective, but it was used against a group of faceless, nameless thugs using things they couldn't easily block attacks with, and definitely boiled things down to the most interesting bit: a big fight between Antonio and Macbeth.

@Scrapula

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Cu..

[IncredibleBee]

@IncredibleBee No. No it doesn't. First of all, that isn't even the problem. The cutscenes are a more cinematic that will portray information to the player, on both character and world. The gameplay is where you get to delve into that world with the preconception that you are this badass half demon ripping other demons apart thanks to those cutscenes. Gameplay is gameplay. Narrative is narrative.

They work hand in hand. Gameplay does not equal lore despite that. Sure gameplay is a huge part of DMC, but it does not equal lore. Sure, you can do some things that are shown in cutscenes, but that doesn't mean the gameplay IS the actual lore. Vergil didn't actually fight Berial, Baal, Dagon, Echidna, Agnus, or (in Fortuna at least) Dante. Neither did Trish or Lady. They were added as playable characters as fanservice and a special treat for the DMC4SE, and DMC's fans, you dolt.

@Sho Minazuki

You seem to have completely ignored my point about mook power and all my questions about Devil Arms. May I please get a proper answer?

[Sho Minazuki]

Should I? When you've ignored everyone else's point, and even now still ignore that point. Everyone has been repeating it since the moment you started this.

I'll spell it out for you, in big, giant letters, so that you don't miss it.

GAMEPLAY DOES NOT EQUAL LORE

[Hantu Kongkek]

He hasn't been ignoring the point, he's been refuting the point.

Most of the physical prowess of DMC characters is displayed in gameplay because that's where most of the fighting takes place. It's not done in most of the cutscenes because you already saw the fight.

[rivaan]

Aaaaaaaaand since I'm finally home, I can finally use pictures to my heart's content! That said here is how I imagine Kosara's Devil Trigger form.

My Hider

[kapuchu]

When he threw the old disk at her like a frizbee, Gomory waited, still as a statue, until it came within inches of her face. Then she lashed out and bit it, shattering it into pieces

[Sho Minazuki]

<Snipped quote>

@kapuchu

Seems about right.

[Lugubrious]

He hasn't been ignoring the point, he's been refuting the point.

Most of the physical prowess of DMC characters is displayed in gameplay because that's where most of the fighting takes place. It's not done in most of the cutscenes because you already saw the fight.

@Hantu Kongkek

He's been 'refuting the point' by saying that balance, pacing, and facts don't matter because his interpretation of gameplay is the only thing that's right. But no matter; we're sorting this out on PMs. I would not place your chips on Bee at the moment.

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

I'd say he's got a point on Cutscene Dante's durability compared to Game Dante. Their strength and speed are fairly close, but Cutscene Dante tanks a lot of stuff that would at least knock him back... like a sword to the chest.

What I think we're neglecting is that there wasn't much Antonio could have done in this situation that wasn't attacking and defeating the firing squad aiming at him quickly and efficiently. If he let down his shield, he'd be cut down quite quickly. If Gene hopped out and took the soldiers on while Antonio drew fire, I'd be arguing with you about this. The move was unusually effective, but it was used against a group of faceless, nameless thugs using things they couldn't easily block attacks with, and definitely boiled things down to the most interesting bit: a big fight between Antonio and Macbeth.

@Scrapula

I'm rather tired of things like 'faceless, nameless thugs'. Have you read anything about Gilgamesh? It is an organization of trained soldiers, not useless thugs or mooks. They are real people from around the world, not mindless minions manufactured as fodder by heaven or hell. If you're so fixated on them not having names, I'll give them names. They're like the EXALT from Xcom; they start at a higher level than the other factions start out with, but don't grow as much, and ultimately don't hold up to the other factions' stronger units. They weren't supposed to be fought yet because of this.

Furthermore, it aggravates me to see you as well as Bee flat-out ignoring things that I've written. Tickler, who is directly attacking, still hasn't been addressed. She is approximately equal to Macbeth in power, and both will be fighting together--why is she not being given any credit? Bee said something about a 'liver shot' but the word 'liver' doesn't even appear in a search of the IC. By the way, I specifically described a large soldier whose weapon was dual greatshields, and whose primary task is defending allies. Does it seem like a difficult situation to get out of without autohitting and bending reality to suit your characters? Yes, that's what you got yourself into by openly attacking a supernatural army. That's the beauty of it: a difficult situation should challenge your inventiveness and skill as a writer. Of the top of my head, Gene could have used his heightened strength to tear up a section of floor to use as a shield, then send it flying as a distraction.

This is a story, not a game. You all, as players, must take queues about how things work from us, the managers of the story, not from whatever idea you have about the games. If we decided that there's no such thing as blessed weapons, or that every Gilgamesh soldier is equal to one of the named operatives in skill, then that's what goes. In this RP, it's creativity, effort, and cooperation that get the job done.