[OOC] Fate/Stagnant Apotheosis

[Unoedipal]

So from what I can gather, someone's leeching all the spare prana because conspiracies, but the grail didn't have enough enough leftover to make an eight servant, despite that possibly being precisely what the grail needs to stop these conspiracies.
Am I correct?

Also, Solomon can't be the only one who willed himself to be summoned. Heroic Spirits are by their very nature exceptional individuals, and the vast majority of candidates would possess a strong desire to return to the human world, whether it's to experience battle again, see what's become of their home in the past 2000 years, etc.

I also feel like it's be weird if the Second Owner could stop the Grail or a Heroic Spirit from leeching prana from Fuyuki's leylines. In general, wouldn't she be allowing that to happen anyways, since servants use quite a bit of mana/prana to power NPs?

@IncredibleBee

No.

Sure, it's possible, but like I said, if you're doing that then you're broken enough to deserve a spot on the banlist.

There's a difference between using the city's mana and fully draining the leylines. That's like the difference between breathing in the carbon dioxide someone breathes out versus tearing out their lungs. Looking after the Spiritual Land is the role of the Second Owner in the first place, on top of this specific Second Owner being the one in control of the Grail System in its entirety.

[IncredibleBee]

What if a cult did a ritual to force the Grail to make another servant. Say, a mass suicide and then utilizing the mana from their bodies to do the summoning thing.

[Unoedipal]

What if a cult did a ritual to force the Grail to make another servant. Say, a mass suicide and then utilizing the mana from their bodies to do the summoning thing.

@IncredibleBee

How are they linking up to the Grail?

At that point you're better off just having your own Greater Ritual to summon a Servant.

[Lonewolf685]

Many...at some point it feels like we are kicking an eager puppy who just urinated in the corner because he was just so excited to see us.

[Unoedipal]

Many...at some point it feels like we are kicking an eager puppy who just urinated in the corner because he was just so excited to see us.

@Lonewolf685

Like I said, if there's a mechanically-sound means, I'm fine with an eighth Servant.

Off the top of my head, I have a good three or four methods of doing so in mind. The issue's just that I hate them all so I won't bring them up, but if they're proposed by someone else then I won't shoot them down.

[Lonewolf685]

Like if someone had a catalyst that had enough mojo in it to summon a Servant, like Prelati's spellbook (Not to say this in particular would work) or something.

[Sodium]

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

How are they linking up to the Grail?

At that point you're better off just having your own Greater Ritual to summon a Servant.

@Unoedipal

That primarily depends on how you want to play the mechanics of the Grail's prana supply. Linking to the Grail shouldn't be too difficult at this point, as, after all, this is the 726th time it has manifested - there should be some knowledge by now of how to link rituals into it, but little information on how to draw out of it (other than winning the war). Perform the summoning ritual along with the ritual to funnel the prana and you've got yourself a Servant.

[IncredibleBee]

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

How are they linking up to the Grail?

At that point you're better off just having your own Greater Ritual to summon a Servant.

@Unoedipal

They're insane cultists, so it's likely that they could develop a ritual that simply forces it to make an extra servant, even if it's at the cost of several/dozen/hundred members' lives.

Or they used their own greater ritual.

[Unoedipal]

<Snipped quote by Unoedipal>

That primarily depends on how you want to play the mechanics of the Grail's prana supply. Linking to the Grail shouldn't be too difficult at this point, as, after all, this is the 726th time it has manifested - there should be some knowledge by now of how to link rituals into it, but little information on how to draw out of it (other than winning the war). Perform the summoning ritual along with the ritual to funnel the prana and you've got yourself a Servant.

@Sodium

"The 726th Holy Grail" refers to the fact that 725 times in the past, "something" that we call a Holy Grail's materialized. They're not the same device or something, this thing was 100% engineered by the Three Great Families (with tweaks by the Zetsumei).

The Grail has seven Master slots. When they're filled, they're filled. If you get enough prana and have the right system, it's theoretically possible to summon a Heroic Spirit without the Grail, but they won't be accounted for by the Grail System since they weren't summoned by the Grail.

<Snipped quote by Unoedipal>

They're insane cultists, so it's likely that they could develop a ritual that simply forces it to make an extra servant, even if it's at the cost of several/dozen/hundred members' lives.

Or they used their own greater ritual.

@IncredibleBee

You can't just brute-force the Grail into opening another slot, especially if you're just a group of randoms who aren't even related to the Three Families. Not even Zouken could do that.

If you give a good enough justification for why this random cult's managed to develop a ritual that makes something similar to a Servant, then sure, knock yourself out. That said, it won't be related to the Grail and when it dies its juice won't go to the Grail; it'll just be there.

[Sodium]

The Matou and Tohsaka residences are sitting empty ("rotting", as you put it). There is a chance that the cult managed to find information about the Grail from either (or both) of these locations and managed to put enough together to formulate the ritual.

[Unoedipal]

The Matou and Tohsaka residences are sitting empty ("rotting", as you put it). There is a chance that the cult managed to find information about the Grail from either (or both) of these locations and managed to put enough together to formulate the ritual.

@Sodium

That specific reason is impossible for a reason that will be explained during the first day of the RP.

[IncredibleBee]

<Snipped quote by Sodium>

"The 726th Holy Grail" refers to the fact that 725 times in the past, "something" that we call a Holy Grail's materialized. They're not the same device or something, this thing was 100% engineered by the Three Great Families (with tweaks by the Zetsumei).

The Grail has seven Master slots. When they're filled, they're filled. If you get enough prana and have the right system, it's theoretically possible to summon a Heroic Spirit without the Grail, but they won't be accounted for by the Grail System since they weren't summoned by the Grail.

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

You can't just brute-force the Grail into opening another slot, especially if you're just a group of randoms who aren't even related to the Three Families. Not even Zouken could do that.

If you give a good enough justification for why this random cult's managed to develop a ritual that makes something similar to a Servant, then sure, knock yourself out. That said, it won't be related to the Grail and when it dies its juice won't go to the Grail; it'll just be there.

@Unoedipal

I think the ritual for summoning a standard servant is already something that was understood by humans, so with enough time and experimentation you can replicate the process, even if summoning the eighth servant does require an atrocity (not that Nasuverse is averse to those).
Even if the servant's own dead body doesn't power the grail, this does mean that the cult in question now has a way to reach the Root without sacrificing their own servant, which means you keep your super strong magical friend a bit longer AND you don't need to sacrifice him to get the super secret bonus, which would keep said Servant from turning should it ever find out.

[Unoedipal]

<Snipped quote by Unoedipal>

I think the ritual for summoning a standard servant is already something that was understood by humans, so with enough time and experimentation you can replicate the process, even if summoning the eighth servant does require an atrocity (not that Nasuverse is averse to those).
Even if the servant's own dead body doesn't power the grail, this does mean that the cult in question now has a way to reach the Root without sacrificing their own servant, which means you keep your super strong magical friend a bit longer AND you don't need to sacrifice him to get the super secret bonus, which would keep said Servant from turning should it ever find out.

@IncredibleBee

It's not, that's why when what the Fuyuki Grail actually did became public in Apo universe, everyone went "holy shit we thought they were joking". Also, the fact that the Fuyuki Grail's purpose is to reach the Root isn't public knowledge; even in the Apo universe where Grail Wars became a biweekly occurrence, that fact was only known to a handful of people in the World.

I'll allow this cult to have managed to find a way to, via Greater Ritual, do something similar to the Grail's summoning on a much smaller scale and summon/bind a Servant independent of the Grail, then choose to send the resulting Servant/Master to Fuyuki so that they can reap the fruits of the real ritual. However, as a matter of course, the Container for this makeshift Servant will be noticeably worse than the container made by the actual Grail, as given by Apo.

[IncredibleBee]

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

It's not, that's why when what the Fuyuki Grail actually did became public in Apo universe, everyone went "holy shit we thought they were joking". Also, the fact that the Fuyuki Grail's purpose is to reach the Root isn't public knowledge; even in the Apo universe where Grail Wars became a biweekly occurrence, that fact was only known to a handful of people in the World.

I'll allow this cult to have managed to find a way to, via Greater Ritual, do something similar to the Grail's summoning on a much smaller scale and summon/bind a Servant independent of the Grail, then choose to send the resulting Servant/Master to Fuyuki so that they can reap the fruits of the real ritual. However, as a matter of course, the Container for this makeshift Servant will be noticeably worse than the container made by the actual Grail, as given by Apo.

@Unoedipal

Does this work for you, Sodium?

[Sodium]

Works just fine for me. An underdog always has the true advantage, after all.

[Unoedipal]

Alright, so with the Master, explain the nature of the cult/family in depth as well as their obsession with Fuyuki's Grail and how they found out about it. This will need to be very hashed out before I allow it.

With the Servant, just app it as you would normally, and I'll assign nerfs prior to approval.

[IncredibleBee]

For the servant, I got one or two in mind that wouldn't use NPs. Since it's running off a false grail, he'd have to have a low mana cost to be viable. So I'm thinking of a few that can get by on normal combat skills, without relying on some crazy special attack.

I'm also thinking that since this may qualify as a fake class, he'd forego class skills, if that's what you mean by nerf. But I think I could get by without them.

[Turboshitter]

Oh man, Seyrun is gonna be pissed when she finds out even some backwater cult managed to summon a Servant when she couldn't xD

[Unoedipal]

For the servant, I got one or two in mind that wouldn't use NPs. Since it's running off a false grail, he'd have to have a low mana cost to be viable. So I'm thinking of a few that can get by on normal combat skills, without relying on some crazy special attack.

I'm also thinking that since this may qualify as a fake class, he'd forego class skills, if that's what you mean by nerf. But I think I could get by without them.

@IncredibleBee

It being in a Class Container is fine. If you'll be removing a Noble Phantasm, then unless the Personal Skills are just absurd, the only other thing you'll really need to do is lower Class Skills by a rank, in all likelihood.

You'll basically need the lowest maintenance cost ever, since you won't have Grail Support, which is important as I was explaining yesterday. If the rest of the cult is helping maintain it, that'll help.

[KoL]

Oh man, Seyrun is gonna be pissed when she finds out even some backwater cult managed to summon a Servant when she couldn't xD

@Turboshitter

You fail to see the bigger picture of Seyrun's plan as of now. Since she has Caster on her side she might not even need a Servant, to say the truth.

<Snipped quote by IncredibleBee>

It being in a Class Container is fine. If you'll be removing a Noble Phantasm, then unless the Personal Skills are just absurd, the only other thing you'll really need to do is lower Class Skills by a rank, in all likelihood.

You'll basically need the lowest maintenance cost ever, since you won't have Grail Support, which is important as I was explaining yesterday. If the rest of the cult is helping maintain it, that'll help.

@Unoedipal

Sey-chan's Advice Corner: "Baka Cult, you need a whole lot of low-lives to do what a single true magus can... baka, baka, baka, What do you think you can accomplish if you don't even understand the foundations upon which you are building a castle? Baaaaka~"