Dion

OOC Gender Restrictions

You know a thread's blown up when Odin joins the fray.

@Ammokkx

Stumbled upon it, and RPG as a community consists of individuals I'm very interested in (as in, the sociology of our community, and the psychology of the people here) so I was naturally drawn to it. I don't think it's blown up - people saying this is a shitstorm have obviously never seen a real one. In fact, for all my annoyance with what @Drache was saying + how she said it, I think both of us maintained a relatively decent posture. Nobody called each other names that were over the top. So, while I appreciate that you remember my name, I don't think the threads blown up and I certainly doubt it was me that did it.

I don't think people are wrong with it having roots in sexism, but I disagree on using that term. I think misguided or ignorant might be better, as sexism is a pretty strong accusation to hurl at someone in which they will be on their most defensive once accused. It doesn't breed healthy conversation in my eyes, and especially not with the crowd that likes to frequent these threads (no offense to anyone meant by that).

@Ammokkx

Taking sexism at it's most literal form to exist, then yes, you can call this sexism. But, if we did that to discrimination, racism, etc. we could shut down literally all arguments about this by throwing a dictionary at someone. But we're humans - and words have connotations. See where I'm going with this? Calling someone a sexist isn't just going to recite a strong reaction from them, it's also just plain ignorant of what you're actually saying.

I'm with @Song Book on this too, though. Most often I interpret it as 'looking for x-sex character' and not my own sex. I've already approached people before asking to RP even if my sex didn't align, but I could play a character of that sex. Never was a problem. The problem I always ran into is that people who specify what gender they want for a partner are usually just really really bad roleplayers.

Additionally it's none of your fucking business why people look for specific sexes in partners, whether it be the character or the person themselves. Maybe the reason is that they get a really big boner from knowing there's a woman on the other side. Maybe they legit feel more comfortable. Maybe the reason is they wanna date a roleplayer, maybe the reason is they wanna talk about girl/guy stuff. Who the fuck cares. I don't because I know it's not my business.

OOC Gender Restrictions

Then you're dating a woman or a man, or you're a woman or a man. For someone hell bent on saying it doesn't make a difference, it suddenly makes a difference in my argument.

Hypocrisy at it's finest!

Could've just ignored it and took my argument for what it is, but here we are. Guess this makes me a sexist.

OOC Gender Restrictions

@Inkarnate

No, unless you feel personally attacked. I think we triggered Odin. XD

@Drache

XD

I don't think Odin gets "triggered". I think he likes to debate things.

@Inkarnate

Just responding to something I absolutely whole heartedly disagree with. I agree with the general consensus of this thread which is that it is stupid to demand a certain sex to RP with, but then I also think that we should just let the idiot kids have their playground, roll our eyes and not RP with those people.

Or, y'know, you can scream bloody murder and sexism and like I said above, make people think you're one of those people. Probably diminishes the amount of people wanting to RP with you equally as fast.

OOC Gender Restrictions

<Snipped quote by Odin>

At the end of the day, this is the real point. It does say a lot about who those people really are, and if this thread is any indication then I think it's really telling that those people don't like to be called out. You kind of proved my point for me, actually.

@Drache

What's that supposed to mean? Like I said I RP with everyone, of both the male and female variety, regardless of skin color, age or whatever other criteria they may meet. I didn't prove jack shit. That's you putting an assumption onto me.

And please, I never said I wanted or intended to dictate how this forum handles RP or what the forum rules are. In fact, I have said the opposite several times, in case you missed it. This thread is long and I know it's probably hard to keep up but you're going over things that have already been said by others.

@Drache

I'm just repeating it because you didn't seem to hear it before. Sometimes, people need to be told the same thing over and over again, louder and louder, before it hits them in the head like a brick, and then they get it.

Or, y'know, just keep screaming sexism. Make everyone think you're one of those people.

Also, without actually linking you to the women's shelter I donate to and volunteer at in my hometown, let me just say that it's a proven fact that jealousy and restricting a person from who they talk to online is a huge indication of a partner that is likely to end up becoming even more controlling and violent in the future and my recommendation will ALWAYS be for someone to leave a person like that because jealousy doesn't go away. But this is a separate issue and I spend a good deal of time in real life working with domestic abuse survivors, so feel free to PM me if you want to talk about that. <3

@Drache

OK ms. goody two shoes, I'm really glad you do all that work for women and all, but that doesn't change the fact that jealousy is a totally normal emotion to feel, ignoring the fact that neither does your volunteer work mean fuck all in the context of a debate. I work at the Defense but that doesn't mean I'm gonna start shouting my opinion of ICBM's off the roof. I'd like to read the study that states jealousy in whatever large or small amounts is objectively correlative with controlling and violence. Frankly I think you sucked that entire 'fact' out of your thumb.

Your recommendation, similarly, doesn't mean jack shit, just like your assumption about me, because it's based on thin air and anecdotes. If you want to advise someone to do that, however, be my guest. It says more about you than me because while you're venting your, quite frankly, stupid opinion, I'll just roll my eyes and think 'wow who would've known people like this exist.' Jealousy doesn't have to go away. Small amounts of jealousy are normal and healthy.

If your significant other never feels jealous, never ever then perhaps you need to consider how he thinks of you. Maybe you're just one of many. Me personally, I'd prefer to be the only one, but from my understanding you have different views of that. That's OK. No outspoken public judgement from me. I'd just ask that you don't judge me either.

'<3'

Give those women in your shelter my regards. I feel really sorry for them. Both for what they went through, and then getting stuck with someone like you. That sucks.

Sincerely, someone who definitely feels jealous sometimes, and is definitely not controlling or violent towards my partner(s).

OOC Gender Restrictions

<Snipped quote by j8cob>
It can be morally unacceptable. To a set of morals. Which are subjective. I just don’t agree, by the morals and ethics I adhere to, that it is acceptable. In my view there is a line between what is acceptably discriminatory and what is not.

@Inkarnate

Guess that means you shouldn't RP with people that do it then.

Kinda in the same way you probably wouldn't shop at a shop that openly promotes racist policy.

Funny how that works.

Is discussing why you find something problematic and addressing it in a general sense necessarily dictating?

@Inkarnate

I find that she wrote it in a way that sounded entirely dictative and matter of factly for a situation which, as you said, fits only subjective morals and opinions. That is my own interpretation, however subjective that may be. I think my analysis was rather spot on however.

OOC Gender Restrictions

@Odin

I think in that case instead of discriminating against others the adult and responsible thing to do would be to just not RP smut at all. To be honest, the fact that people are getting MORE bent out of shape about being gender-selective for smut RPs is actually proof to my point that there is something very skeevy and creepy about it. It goes right back to the "treating RPs as a dating service" thing. People should be able to RP with someone without conflating the IC and OOC relationships. The fact that some people can't is a problem. It leads to drama and worse. Sexism is the obvious main issue here, but even if it's not sexism exactly, it's still problematic. If you're playing your male character as being balls-deep in a female character and the RP is going well, why should it ruin it for anyone to find out that your partner is a guy instead of a girl? There is literally no logical or reasonable excuse for being uncomfortable. You're never going to be in a romantic or sexual relationship with your RP partner.

The real question here is "can we all be adults" and the answer I am getting is "no, no we can't."

@Drache

Well, I think we're lucky that you're not here to dictate how others should and shouldn't RP. (And, additionally, I'm really really glad you're not here to dictate when people should get out of a relationship with someone. Jeez! Imagine your partner gets jealous once. Time to dive the fuck outta there!) You say;

There is literally no logical or reasonable excuse for being uncomfortable.

and you know, I kinda agree, but then it's also people's own business what they select their partners on. I wouldn't be offended if someone said 'I wanna RP with a gay person for my gay RP' because that's their choice. They could have a WILD variety to RP with gay people only. And y'know, if someone said 'I wanna RP with a black person!' I'd find that really strange, but y'know, I'd probably laugh and move on.

Is it 'ableism' if I select my partners based on whether or not they can write two words without spelling errors, or whether or not they can read the English language? Maybe they just never learnt. Sheesh.

If someone's enjoyment of the RP is based on sex of the partner, I find that highly strange and perhaps a bit stupid, but it's definitely not sexism and it definitely isn't 'problematic.' Unless you literally experience mental trauma from this or something in which case, please, seek help. Otherwise, just get over it. It's not your problem. If it bothers you, then you probably wouldn't want to roleplay with people like that anyway, right? So I'd see it more as a pre-warning about who these people really are.

The real question here is "can we all be adults" and the answer I am getting is "no, no we can't."

I don't know, I think I'm an adult. I fit the legal definition and, if I can be bothered, I can respond/behave myself in a mature way. I may not always feel like doing that because this place isn't that serious, but I can.

Also, if you're gonna drive the point home about being an adult, I also would like to ask you not to impose your definition of what is good or bad on others, or when to leave a partner. I think that'd be a pretty adult thing to do here.

OOC Gender Restrictions

<Snipped quote by Odin>

not all people rp smut

@DeadDrop

Yeah, but the people who don't typically don't write ''gib me women or gib me death'' in their RP titles.

OOC Gender Restrictions

I think Nemaisaire is the only one who gave a somewhat halfway reasonable excuse in that maybe someone who is a chick who has a real life dude partner might not want to RP with other dudes because their real life partner would get jealous, which isn't sexism on the RPers part, just some enabling of sexism in their real life partner. (And they should totally get out of that relationship because WTF!)

@Drache

Agree with the general gist of your post ('just play whatever the hell you want, sex doesn't matter') but I strongly disagree with this, especially the last part. I don't feel it's sexism nor do I feel it's 'strange' or even anything close to that to be jealous if your partner writes with males/females. Especially considering that the roleplays that state, blandly, 'MALES ONLY PLZ!' or 'FEMALES PLZ!' typically are not just your average slice-of-life RP. It's not just me typing out a story about Hank and Bob going to the store. Let's be real about that, too. The people asking for a specific sex are generally there to write smut. And that doesn't really equate to 'but I watch porn, surely writing smut with a 3rd party is OK!?!' because this is interactive and includes a third party.

And yeah, to be real, I can kinda understand getting jealous at that. Jealousy is a normal human emotion. Especially if said partner isn't a roleplayer and/or writer and thus doesn't really understand either way.

So yeah, can totally relate to thinking it's stupid for demanding a certain sex for your partner. But then I also think it's really stupid to instantaneously go 'reee sexism' just because someone would prefer to RP with a woman or man. Seriously, it's not that serious.

ALSO, I'm straight, and I am perfectly fine with writing with males or females. Or whatever else is out there today. It doesn't impact the RP. Not sure how my sexual preference ties into this, though.

ALSO2, I think writing 'I wanna RP with women because it gets my rocks off' should be a perfectly valid reason to RP with women only. Not your business who I do and don't write with.

Naruto: Revival

^{Amegakure no Sato | S-rank | Leader of Amegakure}

---

^{TIME: A week after the funeral - a week before the expedition message is sent out | LOCATION: Amegakure | INTERACTION: Kaito Chosokabe, @Ganryu; Sayuri Nisshoku, Kareha Yuki, @Write; Havoc @Syn; Kyokotsu/Mizuki @LadyInInk; Nousagi Hyuga, Kurin Senju, @Reflection; Kaijin Otsutsuki, @Seraphicide; Tashiro Hokori, @BladeSS4}

With two new sets of arms on her back, Yogensha slid backwards towards the Konohagakure to give herself some space. With Kaito and Sayuri in front of her - for now - she was given all the time she needed while Havoc blew the doors inwards onto their hinges, temporarily blocking access of the Konohagakure shinobi that were attempting to 'help' her. “Not a choice?” she'd roared at Havoc's remark as to her giving the orphans a purpose. “You'd rather we let them die in the hands of the so called 'GREAT' shinobi nations? Some justice!”

It was clear that Yogensha had no qualms about her orphanage organization, and she was quick to defend it. Her hands slapped together - all of them - and she began forming handseals. With three separate sets of arms, and six hands, that meant she could weave several jutsu at once. Once she was finished - which was not as speedy as she would've usually have been, but speedy enough - she held out her arms as discs of spinning wind chakra started materializing, spinning around her index finger which was held against her thumb, as if she were holding a piece of paper very carefully. “Futon! Kaze no Yaiba!”

She slung her hands forwards, launching six large disks of spinning wind chakra towards their two targets - Havoc and Kareha. If they managed to respond and block or dodge them in time, they would quickly be alerted by Yogensha, who had pushed herself past her students, Sayuri and Kaito, very suddenly. Her footsteps were quick and agile - it seemed that she was far less sick at the moment than she had been acting out, but never the less a certain tremble could be detected in her step as she ran for the number one target, Havoc. She had hoped that with the Kaze no Yaiba technique, Havoc would not have had enough time to realize she was coming. In effect, she was using the already quite strong technique as a cover for a personal attack in hand to hand combat.

However, this had the side effect that she'd passed by Sayuri and Kaito, as well as the Konohagakure team, very suddenly and without warning, and they would not be able to keep up with her attack as easily as a well synergized team would've been able to. As she ran towards them she readied four of her hands, balling them into fists, while the lowest set of arms formed new handseals. Her cheeks puffed up as a warning sign to the two criminal S-rank shinobi in front of her, before she moved her head forwards and shot out her technique.

“Suiton! Tenkyū!” she shouted as the water in her mouth formed sharp, senbon-like projectiles. But rather than target Havoc, like they would've likely anticipated, she shot them towards Kareha to prevent her from defending against Yogensha's sudden charge. Another smoke screen, another cover for her attack? Regardless, the techniques were aimed for her vitals - throat and heart - so a defense was required.

When she closed in with Havoc, her left hands lurched back before she sent them forwards, aiming them at Havoc's chest. She had hoped that, with the power of two punches at once, she would be able to push him backwards, and off the balcony to fall downwards. With her two right hands, she intended to block whatever attack he'd send her way. A kick, a punch, it would be accounted for.

If she were successful, and had forced Havoc off her tower, she'd collapse instantly, even when Kareha wasn't accounted for. That'd leave Kareha to the Konohagakure team as well as Sayuri and Kaito to get rid of.

Naruto: Revival

Team Konoha/Havoc and entourage, we're waiting for @ganryu and @write to post.